Greatest PBA player (recovered)

[stuart]

(originally posted by Saskibaloia, 05-15-2005 11:32 PM)


Saskibaloia
05-15-2005, 11:32 PM
G'day,

From the Greatest Game who is the Greatest Player?

Is it Senator Jaworksi?

Or big man Ramon Fernandez?

What about mighty mouse Johnny Abarrientos who is the closest one to having an NBA contract and once hailed as THE BEST POINT GUARD in Asia?

I know I haven't watched as much 70s PBA ball as my parents but I would have to go with the FLYING A (Little Johnny) because of that achievement that no other Filipino has achieved however, I am sure that if Dynamite Danny or even little Alapag showcase their potential in the international scene they too will be offered a short term contract.

Cheers.


ros
05-16-2005, 04:39 PM
For me the greatest player would be Allan "Triggerman" Caidic. He was feared in Asia back in his days a deadly 3 point shooter even deadlier than those of the Sokors.....

I remember in one game 1991 Season. Caidic shot 8 triples in one quarter and shot 17 triples in the whole game........


Flip_Balla3
05-16-2005, 05:01 PM
Sup Ros! what do you mean SOKORS? by the way, for me...the best player is the flying A.. Johnny Abarrientos, no doubt...he's the best point guard ever to play in the PBA.......


pinoycager
05-18-2005, 11:30 PM
Allan Caidic for me. If I remember it right, he shot 18 triples in one PBA game. The only reason he was not considered to play in the NBA unlike Abarrientos is because he's too small to play the 3 spot. And at 6'2", he's too slow for 2 guard in the NBA either. But then again if given the chance to play 2 spot, maybe he could have proven these theories wrong.

The Flying A definitely had a chance to play point in the NBA. I think in his prime, he is better than Earl Boykins because of his passing and 3 point accuracy. I bet he can throw spectacular allyhoops to the extremely athletic american players. Only reason he can't do it in the PBA is because there are not that many "above the rim" hoopsters here. Sure there are dunkers in the PBA, but not as high flyers as the NBA jammers.

Peace.


pinoycager
05-18-2005, 11:51 PM
To flip_balla3, SOKORS means SOuth KOReanS.

Peace.

[jramoyo]

I'd go for Johnny A, he is probably the only player who played perfectly, effectively and consistently for his position. Caidic was incredible but I'm sure how effective he can play outside the league, I mean he can definitely score alot but as a long range shooter how long can he last in terms of consistency?

[donmar]

I'd go for Johnny A, he is probably the only player who played perfectly, effectively and consistently for his position. Caidic was incredible but I'm sure how effective he can play outside the league, I mean he can definitely score alot but as a long range shooter how long can he last in terms of consistency?

It doesn't matter, Caidic all the way!.. most feared shooter in Asia during his heydays!

[spreekanick]

Terry Saldaña
Jolly Escobar
Bonel Balingit
Dong Polistico
Rudy Distrito.... ahahahahahahahaha

seriously.... both Johnny A. and A. Caidic.. :)
they are such a beauty to watch (back in those days)

can be considered:
Vergel Meneses
Kenneth Duremdes
Samboy Lim

[rensquared]

Terry Saldaña
Jolly Escobar
Bonel Balingit
Dong Polistico
Rudy Distrito.... ahahahahahahahaha

seriously.... both Johnny A. and A. Caidic.. :)
they are such a beauty to watch (back in those days)

can be considered:
Vergel Meneses
Kenneth Duremdes
Samboy Lim

I'd prefer Hector Calma and Allan Caidic

TO be considered:
Sonny Jaworski
JOhnny Abarrientos
Ricardo Brown
Samboy Lim

[Burndvinyard]

Robert Jaworski
Ramon Fernandez
Samboy Lim
Allan Caidic
Johnny Abarrientos
and Ricardo Brown...the only Filipino PBA player to be drafted in the NBA....;)

[VII]

my five would be

Johnny A pg
Samboy Lim sg
Allan Caidic sf
Benjie Paras pf
Ramon Fernandes c

[saints13]

I'm not a fan of Jawo pero I think he's the most influential PBA personality.:)

[ctongco]

I'm not a fan of Jawo pero I think he's the most influential PBA personality.:)

I agree, The Big J is very influential.

When it comes to the best PBA player I think it's Samboy Lim. I was not able to see him play during his prime, but I hear a lot of stories from my father. My father said that whenever Samboy went to the officials table the crowd would start to get restless because they know it will be great basketball when Samboy plays.

Also, I think the attitude of Samboy is what is needed in our present NT. An attitude that is not intimidated of anything, not even injury.

[Lebron23]

PBA Mythical 12

C- Ramon Fernandez
PF- Alvin Patrimonio
SF- Vergel Meneses
SG- Samboy Lim
G- Johhny Abbarientos

C- Benjie Paras
F- Jerry Coldinerra
F- Allan Caidic
SG- Mark Caguioa
PG - Willie Miller

PF - Philip Cezar
C- Abet Guidaben

Coach: Tim Cone
Asst. Coach: Chot Reyes, Norman Black, Jong Uichico, Chito Narvasa and Siot Tanquincen.


http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/d/d5/MENESES28.jpg

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/3/3b/MENESES.jpg

The Aerial Voyager, Vergel Meneses is my favorite player of all time because i was only 8 yrs.old,when i watched the Sunkist Orange Juicers dominate the 1995 PBA Season, and i think he is the greatest highflyer of all time after winning the 1992 and 1993 Slamdunk Competition.

1995 PBA MVP Stats ( 70 Games)

20.0 ppg, 5.4 apg, 3.3 rpg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg

Achievements ( NCAA, PBL, PBA)


Philippine Basketball Association

1-time PBA Most Valuable Player (1995)
4-time PBA All-Star Game MVP (1995, 1998, 2000, 2003)
10-time PBA All-Star (1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2004; in 1999, he was voted as a starter but failed to play due to an injury)
2-time Mythical First Team Selection (1994, 1995)
1-time Mythical Second Team Selection (1993)
1-time Most Improved Player (1993)
2-time PBA Slam Dunk Champion (1992, 1993)
3-time Best Player of the Conference (1994 Governors Cup, 1995 All-Filipino Cup, 1995 Commissioners Cup)
PRO Basketball Player of the Year (PSA Awards and SCOOP Awards in 1995)
Member of the PBA's 25 Greatest Players
Member, 5,000-point and 9,000 point clubs
Member, 2,000-assists club
PBA Commissioner's Cup Champions (1993, 1995)
PBA All-Filipino Cup Champions (1995)

Philippine Basketball League

Member of the PBL's 12 Greatest Legacy Team (2000)
Member of the PBL's Top 20 Players of All-Time (2003)

Philippine National Team/International Career

1989 RP Youth Team Member
1989 South East Asian Games, Runner-up (Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia)
1991 South East Asian Games, Champion (Manila, Philippines)
1998 William Jones Cup, Champion (Taipei, Taiwan)
1998 Asian Games, Bronze Medal (Bangkok, Thailand)
1998 US Tour versus US NCAA Division I teams
1998 Member of the PBA Selection in the "Shaq-a-Rap Tour"
2004 4th Shell Rimula Invitational Basketball Tournament (Darussalam, Brunei)


Great article about Vergel Meneses



Legary of Vergel Meneses

He's the Aerial Voyager.

After Danny Florencio there was Samboy Lim, and after Samboy Lim there's Vergel Meneses. On the time line of PBA innovators, aerial artists who stretched the limits of what could be done on and above the floor, Meneses holds a respectable place.

In the post-Samboy Lim era, the 6-foot-3 Meneses continues to move the game off the floor on the strength of his wondrous legs, then finishes plays with the creativity of his boundless skills. He personifies hang time, making up moves in mid-air before scoring with a graceful shot off the glass or a twisting lay up.

His aerial acrobatics continue to dazzle PBA fans, winning fans nationwide and making his nickname, Aerial Voyager, familiar around the country. Vergel, like Samboy, seems to defy gravity as he soars to the basket on the fly. Opponents know what Vergel can do, but they never know how he's going to do it - and that makes him virtually impossible to stop.

"In the eyes of most coaches today, there is no player as dangerous on the offense as Vergel," wrote the PBA Annual. "The reason is simple. The 1995 league MVP can break down opposing teams in so many ways, from his crowd-pleasing drives to his long jumpers to his ability to see the floor and hit open teammates with the perfect pass."

Sunkist almost completed a Grand Slam in 1995, the year the former Jose Rizal College Bomber airwalked his way head and shoulders above the rest and won the Most Valuable Player award.

The RFM franchise surrounded the flamboyant forward with a horde of talents to ensure winning, including a clone - Kenneth Duremdes - who would later turn out to be an equally great player and a fellow member of the elite MVP club.

One of Vergel's biggest assets aside from his aerial acrobatics is his big fighting heart. He is a big time player who is not afraid to seek the ball when the chips are down. He is a player who is willing to take the last shot and has been successful most of the time.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010413035416/pba.com.ph/25gplayers/v_meneses.htm

[snipes12]

no brainer = vergel meneses

[hawke12]

i always thought it was Alvin Patrimonio... but now I think It's Allan Caidic...

[donmar]

i always thought it was Alvin Patrimonio... but now I think It's Allan Caidic...

Agree! :cool:...

[phevergy]

ANOTHER TALK ABOUT HISTORY!!!:mad:

[donmar]

Yes another talk about history... just don't mention Graham Lim, Pichay, etc...

[ankle breaker]

Robert Jaworski
Ramon Fernandez
Samboy Lim
Allan Caidic
Johnny Abarrientos
and Ricardo Brown...the only Filipino PBA player to be drafted in the NBA....;)
what year did ricky brown joined the NBA draft?

[donmar]

what year did ricky brown joined the NBA draft?

I think it was 1978 or 1979 by NJ Nets???... then he moved to the Philippines instead of playing.... starred for RP in the 1981 Jones Cup triumph with the original NCC squad (before the Caidic/Lim/Calma era)...

[icthus22]

I think Johnny A, Alvin Patrimonio, Robert Jaworski, Ramon Fernandez and Vergel Meneses

[RetiredJordanStopper]

Vergel Meneses and Jun Limpot could have been the bests of the bests. VM is 6'3 with outworldly skills and JL is 6'6 who runs the floor like a guard. But both lack heart, motivation and desire that the likes of Alvin and Jawo had.

[ankle breaker]

what year did ricky brown joined the NBA draft?


I think it was 1978 or 1979 by NJ Nets???... then he moved to the Philippines instead of playing.... starred for RP in the 1981 Jones Cup triumph with the original NCC squad (before the Caidic/Lim/Calma era)...
i browsed the web for the 1978 and 1979 draft and here's what i found.

in 1978 NBA draft, the 1st pick overall was Mychal Thompson out of minnesota taken by Portland.

One notable player selected in this draft was Raymond Townsend who was taken 22nd overall by Golden State Warriors out UCLA.

in 1979 NBA draft, the 1st pick overall was Earvin "Magic" Johnson out of Michigan State University taken by LA Lakers.

Ricardo Brown was taken in the 3rd round 59th overall by the Houston Rockets out of Pepperdine University.
he was taken 7 places above famous pistons center bill laimbeer who was taken 65th overall by the cleveland cavaliers.

[Alex07]

how about Bogs Adornado? I saw this guy walking in greenhills some few weeks ago.

[Alex07]

PBA-ALL TIME BEST PLAYERS

Marlou Aquino 6'9 (center)-One most hyped big men during his rookie season.Could be one of RP's all time best only if he works harder than he does.

Benjie Paras 6'7(center/power forward)-the only rookie-MVP in PBA history.One of the most dominant big men during his hay days.

Kenneth Duremdes 6'3(guard/small forward)-had been RP team's backbone during the Centennial team stint.I think he was one of the hardest working guys during that time.Norman Black was amazed by this guy's skills during his amateur days.

Vergel Meneses 6'3(guard)-one of my favorite players.a Great player to watch

Hector Calma 5'9(guard)-My titos always insist that this guy was one of the fastest players in the PBA.They even say that he was better than Johnny A(well that I don't know).

Jerry Cordinera 6'6(center)-great shot blocker.good player on the post

Alvin Patrimmonio 6'3(forward)-4 time MVP need to say more?

Allan Caidic 6'3(guard/forward)-arguably the best 3 point shooter of all time.kahit sapakin mo he'll make the shot.

Bogs Adornado 6'2(guard)-one of the great shooters of his time.Sadly there were no three point arcs then :D

Johnny Abbarrientos 5'7(guard)-the tiny guy with the huge heart.I've never seen such a small guy make fun of 6'9/6'10 guys in international competition(watch RP vs Japan; Hiroshima Asian games for reference)

Ricardo Brown 6'2(guard)-the quick brown fox..haven't seen his game but I heard a lot of "kwentos" from my old folks so this guy must be really really good.

Samboy Lim 6'1(guard)-c'mmon,I mean this Letranista must be one of the highlight reel during his time.give him some 4 inch height and he'll be playing in the NBA :D

[jamesz]

My vote for PBA players that could have played in the NBA as role players.

"Young" Robert Jaworski- 6'1" had the height, build, shooting and point guard skills to compete in the 1970s NBA.

Allan Caidic- 6'2' and a pure shooter. Similar height players have made the NBA playing the role of off the bench shooter (Australia's Shane Heal, Celtics Jerry Sichting).

Marlou Aquino- 6'9" (real height 6'10") with ample skills. Most NBA teams prefer their 11th or 12th men be big men for rebounding/defense.

Johnny A- 5'7 had the quickness, shooting and point guard skills to be a 2nd or 3rd string pt. guard reliever in the NBA.

Although I did not attend this event. I would like to share my high school friend's photo album of the PBA Legends Tour in Carson, CA this past March 2008. Recognize a few faces? Photos by Sikat del Rosario.

http://www.pbase.com/katsi/pba_legends

[bolabasket]

How about 3-time MVP 6-4 Ramon Fernandez from Univ. of San Carlos

[ankle breaker]

mon fernandez - unanimous choice. the epitome of a good basketball player and has been the yardstick of the players in the PBA.

[Alex07]

the El Presidente and Jawo are one of the greats.Jawo is also the owner of "simpleng tira" (cheapshots).I think almost everyone actively playing in the PBA back then knows that

[donmar]

i browsed the web for the 1978 and 1979 draft and here's what i found.

in 1978 NBA draft, the 1st pick overall was Mychal Thompson out of minnesota taken by Portland.

One notable player selected in this draft was Raymond Townsend who was taken 22nd overall by Golden State Warriors out UCLA.

in 1979 NBA draft, the 1st pick overall was Earvin "Magic" Johnson out of Michigan State University taken by LA Lakers.

Ricardo Brown was taken in the 3rd round 59th overall by the Houston Rockets out of Pepperdine University.
he was taken 7 places above famous pistons center bill laimbeer who was taken 65th overall by the cleveland cavaliers.

Cheers bro! :)

[heroescantdie]

for me,
1. mon fernandez, the true filipino bigman finese type,the premiere center of the philippine his time
2. alvin patrimonio his early days as a power forward, captain lion heart,the true filipino power forward, stong inside
3 allan caidic the highest points in a agame by a local 79, he can shoot it, many teams in asia are scared of him
4. franis arnaiz, mr. clutch, give the ball to him during crunch time
5. atoy co, the fortune cookie, good midrange game
6 samboy lim, the filipino skywalker thoug injuries get better of him
7 bnjie paras, ower of power, the rookie mvp of the pba, how many players can do that? no one else but him
8. jawo. he is the big guard, great body, vision, everything
9.hector the director calma, imagine nash
10johnny a. he is small, but if you watch him, you'll see, small guys can play

[C2Hamm]

How about 3-time MVP 6-4 Ramon Fernandez from Univ. of San Carlos
doesnt he have 4 MVPs like Alvin?

[heroescantdie]

doesnt he have 4 MVPs like Alvin?
yes he does have 4 mvp's , he is tied with alvin patrimonio

[Lebron23]

I also ranked Venancio Johnson Paras as one of the greatest player that ever played in the PBA. He is also a Fil-Foreign player just like Eric Menk, and i think he is a better actor than Alvin Patrimonio. :D

He was also the franchise player of the Shell Turbo Chargers back in the 1990's, and one of the greatest shot blocker in the PBA.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/7/7a/Benjie.jpg

PBA Awards

2-time Most Valuable Player (1989 & 1999)
Rookie of the Year (1989)
5-time Mythical First Team Selection (1989, 1990, 1991, 1995 & 1999)
3-time Mythical Second Team Selection (1992, 1994 & 1996)
Best Player of the Conference (1999 Commissioner's Cup)
Comeback Player of the Year (1999)
Eight-time PBA All-Star
2-time PBA All-Star Game Most Valuable Player (1994 & 1999)
PBA's 25 Greatest Players of All-Time
4- time PBA Champion with the Shell Turbo Chargers


Career Stats: 17.8 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 2.3 bpg, 3.2 apg, 0.4 spg

Total: 10,367 points, 4,402 rebounds, 1,822 assists, 1,323 blocks and 221 steals

Season by Season Stats ( Courtersy of Mr. Anthony Servinio)


VENANCIO PARAS

1989 Shell 57 1470 25.8 ppg
1990 Shell 47 1085 23.1 ppg
1991 Shell 48 1098 22.9 ppg
1992 Shell 42 731 17.4 ppg
1993 Shell 29 610 21.0 ppg
1994 Shell 50 1029 20.6 ppg
1995 Shell 54 1072 19.9 ppg
1996 Shell 64 1062 16.6 ppg
1997 Shell 27 318 11.8 ppg
1998 Shell 56 656 11.7 ppg
1999 Shell 56 879 15.7 ppg
2000 Shell 11 127 11.5 ppg
2001 Shell 25 185 7.4 ppg
2002 Shell 8 19 2.4 ppg
2003 San Miguel 12 26 2.2 ppg
Total 586 games player, 10367 points, 17.8 ppg

[rocketstar47]

...for me the greatest player is jawo

[bolabasket]

I also ranked Venancio Johnson Paras as one of the greatest player that ever played in the PBA. He is also a Fil-Foreign player just like Eric Menk, and i think he is a better actor than Alvin Patrimonio. :D

He was also the franchise player of the Shell Turbo Chargers back in the 1990's, and one of the greatest shot blocker in the PBA.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/7/7a/Benjie.jpg

PBA Awards

2-time Most Valuable Player (1989 & 1999)
Rookie of the Year (1989)
5-time Mythical First Team Selection (1989, 1990, 1991, 1995 & 1999)
3-time Mythical Second Team Selection (1992, 1994 & 1996)
Best Player of the Conference (1999 Commissioner's Cup)
Comeback Player of the Year (1999)
Eight-time PBA All-Star
2-time PBA All-Star Game Most Valuable Player (1994 & 1999)
PBA's 25 Greatest Players of All-Time
4- time PBA Champion with the Shell Turbo Chargers


Career Stats: 17.8 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 2.3 bpg, 3.2 apg, 0.4 spg

Total: 10,367 points, 4,402 rebounds, 1,822 assists, 1,323 blocks and 221 steals

Season by Season Stats ( Courtersy of Mr. Anthony Servinio)


VENANCIO PARAS

1989 Shell 57 1470 25.8 ppg
1990 Shell 47 1085 23.1 ppg
1991 Shell 48 1098 22.9 ppg
1992 Shell 42 731 17.4 ppg
1993 Shell 29 610 21.0 ppg
1994 Shell 50 1029 20.6 ppg
1995 Shell 54 1072 19.9 ppg
1996 Shell 64 1062 16.6 ppg
1997 Shell 27 318 11.8 ppg
1998 Shell 56 656 11.7 ppg
1999 Shell 56 879 15.7 ppg
2000 Shell 11 127 11.5 ppg
2001 Shell 25 185 7.4 ppg
2002 Shell 8 19 2.4 ppg
2003 San Miguel 12 26 2.2 ppg
Total 586 games player, 10367 points, 17.8 ppg

if not for the showbiz and injuries....he would have played in PBA longer...

[ankle breaker]

Paras is the only rookie/MVP in the PBA. that's a distinction that will not be matched in the coming years.

[Lebron23]

if not for the showbiz and injuries....he would have played in PBA longer...


and Paras also had the hottest ex wife in the PBA.

Jackie Forster.

http://pinoyspy.com/filipina_celebs/actresses/images/jackie_forster.jpg

http://bp0.blogger.com/_NKH--M0Q7Vo/Rx9DdLOn8XI/AAAAAAAABf4/t--SV4c8MRk/s400/jac1.jpg

http://bp1.blogger.com/_zvRN6TiclKA/Rqx73HRrJDI/AAAAAAAAF9w/MyCJ4_zOjyA/s400/jackie_forster_1.JPG

http://bp2.blogger.com/_zvRN6TiclKA/Rqx73XRrJFI/AAAAAAAAF-A/mXDT_KPpIDY/s400/jackie_forster_3.JPG

http://bp3.blogger.com/_zvRN6TiclKA/Rqx73nRrJGI/AAAAAAAAF-I/fQOrtla9VxU/s400/jackie_forster_4.JPG

She is only 28 yrs.old, and Paras is the luckiest man alive. :D

[dreamwalker]

The 2003 Crispa-Toyota Reunion.

These age old players still got some fire in their hearts and a lot of pride to compete. A golden era for the PBA and no other.......:)


XUBSJ7d63Jg




And if only we could have 2 to 3 more Allan Caidics to be included in our national team......

....then we can compete with the dreaded South Korean sharpshooters shot for shot........is there anyone close to the Triggerman ?


04Ko4n_XmYM&feature=related




If only GS, JDG and company can play like the El Presidente, please do watch how he played against an overweight Abe King, old but physically fit. True, he had a hard time converting a shot but who cares, he still has the right moves, the way our bigmen should play.

....then there's no more need to naturalize.

b7gQTwb0JiY&feature=related

[Sakamoto]

OT
I haven't seen both legends of Philippine basketball greeted each. Even in the reunion game and in the awarding of 25 greatest players, Guidaben just pass by in front of Jaworski while all awardees greeted the former Senator. What seems to be the problem?

[ras627]

I dis agree with you all i probably picked Caloy the dream Loyzaga.

take note he get us to the olympics.

[its_eman8211]

I agree with you man,

CALOY "The Dream" LOYZAGA

The greatest Basketball Player in The Country...
Maybe he is not more famoust than Big J or Mark Caguioa but who can break what he did? Getting out Country into OLYMPICS...

That was AWESOME...

[dreamwalker]

A lot of basketball pundits consider Carlos Loyzaga to be the greatest Filipino basketball player of all time and will go down in our rich Philippine basketball history as the “Big/Great Difference”. He had the natural ability to turn what seemed to be an impending defeat to victory, thus earning for himself the moniker.

He was also chosen to the Mythical 5 in the 1954 FIBA world championship and no asian ever accomplished such as feat.

Unfortunately, he can't be considered as the greatest PBA player ever......:D

[ramzaruglia]

Caloy "The Big Difference Loyzaga, for me, and inarguably the best Filipino player ever.

Whoever complains, talk to my lawyer. Joke:D

[phevergy]

Another talk about history again!!!:) :) :)
Pinoy forumers really love to rehearse again and again the past history of basketball showbiz...:) :)

[ras627]

maybe we post greatest players in their era

1950's to present

[Niru]

that's great to hear :)

[phevergy]

maybe we should i post Philippine basketball history:) :) :)

[Lebron23]

...for me the greatest player is jawo


http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/a/a0/Mon.jpg

http://hometeamsonline.com/photos/basketball/PBALEGENDS/alvin_03.jpg

I beg to disagree.

[icebreaker]

J-a-w-o-r-s-k-i !J-a-w-o-r-s-k-i !
J-a-w-o-r-s-k-i !

I can still hear the fans shouting his name... that good old days...

[CoJ]

hmmm with the way people are posting now adays...I say Japeth Aguilar...LOL

[Lebron23]

hmmm with the way people are posting now adays...I say Japeth Aguilar...LOL

:eek::eek::eek:

[Red Baron]

First Five:

PG-Robert Jaworski
G- Allan Caidic
F- Vergel Meneses
PF- Alvin Patrimonio
C- Ramon Fernandez

Back-up
PG-Johnny Abarientos
PG-Ricardo Brown
G- Atoy Co
F-Kenneth Durembes
G-Jojo Lastimosa
C-Benjie Paras
C-Jerry Condinera

Special to be metioned;

PG-Hector Calma
C-Philip Cesar
G-Samboy Lim
PF- Bong Hawkins
C-Danny Ildefonso
G-Willie Miller