Preparation Games for Eurobasket 2011

[X-Berg-Hustler]

After loosing against Finnland a couple of days ago, Germany overcome Serbia today without Nowitzki and Kaman! :eek:

59-58

Germany: Robin Benzing 12, Tibor Pleiss 9, Christopher McNaughton 7, Heiko Schaffartzik 7
Serbia: Boban Marjanovic 11, Stefan Markovic 10, Kosta Perovic 10

Should give'em a big boost and some confidence. I'm pretty excited about the performance of Nowitzki in this years Eurobasket!

[sambaras]

I've really underestimated some of the great coaches in the past I guess. I could be wrong and Turkey in fact doesn't miss Tanjević but simply had an incredibly slopy and bad game that comes in one of the 100 along with mental issues as hard underestimation etc. But that's a long shot.

If Turkey somehow doesn't improve in most sections, especialy in it's incredibly wild shot selection (!? weird critique for a silver medalist NT?), which is definately not a matter of "friendly or no friendly game"... medal will be out of reach considering all the competition for it.

Out of 13 teams I've seen so far, Turkey might as well be the worst prepaired NT at this very moment when also considering their individual talent.

I know we really sucked today.But Turkey is maybe the only country who shouldn't be evaluated according to the prep games.We always play bad in these games.I think again we will be ready just on the time Eurobasket starts.I also don't agree with the people who say we don't succeed anything outside home.Since 2008,we have the same game character in major tournaments.Although we were 8th in 2009 we were really strong that time too.Just after Greece loss we really didn't care about the classification games as our place was sure for 2010 WC.I think match by match we will try a lot of things.Just don't look at the scores.You'll see we will be totally different in Lithuania. I am not saying we will surely win a medal but we will be strong again in Eurobasket imo.

[turk-jugoslav]

Serbia played witout Teodosic... Germany is really tough at defence and with Nowitzki,Germany can be surprise team of Eurobasket

[hustlerlt]

about Enes Kanter... I didn't like him very much for this match but never forget,he played against very strong and sized Ukranian centers.Some Lithuanians from this forum compare him to Valanciunas's games but Jonas played against little Czech centers like Ondrej Balvin.You know,Balvin looks like 13 as physichally...In the last year,Our Oğuz Savaş ate Jonas in both matches in Eurolague but we saw in this match,Oguz was weaker than sized Ukranian centers... and we have no chance for comparing except Eurobasket 2011... Yes,Jonas looks better because he is more experienced than Kanter.Kanter needs some experience.
I was probably to harsh on Kanter,but Jonas played very well against Russia,where big men were a lot better.Still we need to wait for a few games and then we will be able to draw conclusions.It's just really typical of me to go on some kind of forum and either praise or bash someone too much.Still I expected a lot more from Enes in this game.

[gockun]

I was probably to harsh on Kanter,but Jonas played very well against Russia,where big men were a lot better.Still we need to wait for a few games and then we will be able to draw conclusions.It's just really typical of me to go on some kind of forum and either praise or bash someone too much.Still I expected a lot more from Enes in this game.

bullshit.. you have to wait untill EC. till then all of the comments are bullshit.. and if you arre gonna be happy Jonas is the great while Enes is a little cat... dont worry we dont care..

[SunOverHStreet]

Serbia played witout Teodosic... Germany is really tough at defence and with Nowitzki,Germany can be surprise team of Eurobasket
Serbia missed way to many open shoots (I'm really wondering, is there any player with consistent shot on Serbia's roster:confused:)... It's inexcusable, well, it would be if that match was played at EC... Fortunately, Serbia have time to prepare more and loosen up a bit till the championship starts.

BTW, Germany had hard time defending Serbia's pick and roll...

[SaliH]

I was probably to harsh on Kanter,but Jonas played very well against Russia,where big men were a lot better.Still we need to wait for a few games and then we will be able to draw conclusions.It's just really typical of me to go on some kind of forum and either praise or bash someone too much.Still I expected a lot more from Enes in this game.


I understand you, I expected a lot from Enes too, He made a game of an average player, but our whole team sucked today. WTF, Cenk Akyol was the man of the match! :D This was not a serious game: the whole team was shooting brick after brick, the coach tried a different players etc.
PS Furkan looks like a good replacement for Kerem Gonlum.

[SaliH]

TÜRKİYE (69): Cenk Akyol 13 (2 ribaund), Barış Ermiş 4, Ömer Onan 9 (3 ribaund), Ersan İlyasova 3 (6 ribaund- 1 asist), Kerem Tunçeri 2 (2 asist), Oğuz Savaş 5 (6 ribaund- 2 asist), Ender Arslan 6 (1 ribaund- 2 asist), Enes Kanter 7 (6 ribaund), Hidayet Türkoğlu 8 (5 ribaund- 2 asist), Emir Preldzic 4 (2 ribaund- 3 asist), Furkan Aldemir 8 (7 ribaund)


UKRAYNA (65): Oleksandr Kolchenko 2 (1 asist), Steven Burtt 10 (5 ribaund- 6 asist), Viacheslav Kravtsov 15 (5 ribaund), Denys Lukashov 7 (4 ribaund), Maksym Pustozvonov 6 (3 ribaund- 1 asist), Kyrylo Fesenko 10 (8 ribaund- 1 asist), Andriy Agafonov 1 (3 ribaund- 1 asist), Oleksiy Pecherov 7 (1 riubaund), Aleksandr Mishula 5 (3 ribaund), Aleksandr Lypoviy 2 (2 ribaund- 2 asist), Dmytro

[Joško Poljak Fan]

I better don't comment on the Turkish game as I believe some users might take it a bit too personal.

If Turkey generaly does as bad with preparation games, than I guess you guys have nothing to be afraid of ;)

[turk-jugoslav]

I better don't comment on the Turkish game as I believe some users might take it a bit too personal.

If Turkey generaly does as bad with preparation games, than I guess you guys have nothing to be afraid of ;)

no,I just said that this match didn't show our real performance and we have to wait... maybe we won't gonna be good,we cannot know but some forum users decied that we are the worst- looking team before the tournament and I wrote something against this bullshit...

[Kwijibo]

Dick measuring continues...

And all of this for wait to Pau and see his maeusirng and finish the conversation... :p

[Straight forward]

Seriously, skip that Jonas vs Kanter controversy till the official group games in Eurobasket. We are in the same group and the boys will meat if Kemzura won't find some experience deep in the roster :p People compare these two all the time while one of them was transcendental all year and I'm still not convinced he's already in our world.

[pimpekaustas]

I agree.Enes didnt play any official game bcs of his special sitation.What's discussion now .Jonas better then Enes.is it new discussion.


U16 European champions Avarage

Enes 23 Point, 16,5 ribaund
Jonas valanciunas 14 Point, 11 ribaund


U18

Turkey 95-Litvania 74


Enes 35 points, 19 ribaund, 4 block
Valanciunas 14 points, 5 ribaund

:rolleyes:

vau, and that means what? :confused: josip sesar had much better stats than dirk in junior competitions ;)

[inefeswetrust]

vau, and that means what? :confused:

well, those stats make way more sense than a one half game for sure..

[Darknemo2000]

I agree.Enes didnt play any official game bcs of his special sitation.What's discussion now .Jonas better then Enes.is it new discussion.


U16 European champions Avarage

Enes 23 Point, 16,5 ribaund
Jonas valanciunas 14 Point, 11 ribaund


U18

Turkey 95-Litvania 74


Enes 35 points, 19 ribaund, 4 block
Valanciunas 14 points, 5 ribaund

:rolleyes:

You forget that it happened 2 years ago when Kanter had a significant physical advantage over Valanciunas. Even now Kanter is stronger but not as dominantly as when they were younger.

It wasnt the only game BTW.

Why dont you write the stats the first game where Lithuania beta Turkey in that U-18? Maybe because their stats were similar?

But in any case it happened two years ago. That's a lot of time for young players to progress or regress. For example Tauras Jogela (lithuanian player) won the MVP title in U16 but was barely an 11th-12th player on U18 team after two years because injuries limited his experience during seasons.

Right now Valanciunas looks better in preparation games, and it wasn't just the game against Czechs but also against Russians who have a pretty strong front lineup.

Maybe Kanter will be able to catch up but you also should consider that he may also need bit more time for that. Training individually will never be as good as playing in Euroleague. He still needs time, how much - only time will tell, but you cant claim that one player is better or worse right now.

The only conclusion that ca be made right now is that Valanciunas simply had two better games so far.

[gockun]

You forget that it happened 2 years ago when Kanter had a significant physical advantage over Valanciunas. Even now Kanter is stronger but not as dominantly as when they were younger.

It wasnt the only game BTW.

Why dont you write the stats the first game where Lithuania beta Turkey in that U-18? Maybe because their stats were similar?

But in any case it happened two years ago. That's a lot of time for young players to progress or regress. For example Tauras Jogela (lithuanian player) won the MVP title in U16 but was barely an 11th-12th player on U18 team after two years because injuries limited his experience during seasons.

Right now Valanciunas looks better in preparation games, and it wasn't just the game against Czechs but also against Russians who have a pretty strong front lineup.

Maybe Kanter will be able to catch up but you also should consider that he may also need bit more time for that. Training individually will never be as good as playing in Euroleague. He still needs time, how much - only time will tell, but you cant claim that one player is better or worse right now.

The only conclusion that ca be made right now is that Valanciunas simply had two better games so far.

you have good points

[surfer]

Also, if FB Ulker had not won so much during those 2 years, what they have done has effects on national team as well, they need to realize this and in the future they need to stop behaving like they are above of everything else

Let's play nice.

[sambaras]

Also, if FB Ulker was not the bitchiest club ever Enes could have played actual games during those 2 years, what they have done has effects on national team as well, they need to realize this and in the future they need to stop behaving like they are above of everything else

And maybe if Efes didn't suck against Fener so much in the last 5 years,maybe their fans could accept that the people to blame in this case is not Fener management but Enes' manager.Fener didn't do anything illegal.They just informed NCAA stuff with the documents.Enes should have known that he couldn't play.Anyway,although he has more abilites than Valanciunas we'll see if he would be able to pass him because he's now not better than Valanciunas.But i really hope he does.

[surfer]

And maybe if Efes didn't suck against Fener so much in the last 5 years,maybe their fans could accept that the people to blame in this case is not Fener management but Enes' manager.Fener didn't do anything illegal.They just informed NCAA stuff with the documents.Enes should have known that he couldn't play.Anyway,although he has more abilites than Valanciunas we'll see if he would be able to pass him because he's now not better than Valanciunas.But i really hope he does.

At the time he was like 17 years or what? He was not even legally major for god's sake, they just wanted to take what they could from a potential NBA superstar and when they were not able to do that they tried to ruin his career, this is pretty obvious. And what were they thinking when they let him play in TBL and Euroleague with no professional contract? Is that all because of FB's good will? Lol

[Kalashnikov]

already 2 pages of comments for a hypothetical situation on which of the still unproven future prospects of lith or turkey will hypothetically dominate the tournament, always in hypothesis that any of these teams get far enough in the competition for that to make any difference!

[klakis]

Also, if FB Ulker was not the bitchiest club ever Enes could have played actual games during those 2 years, what they have done has effects on national team as well, they need to realize this and in the future they need to stop behaving like they are above of everything else

My friend please let me know who said that :

"We wish Jordan were 7-feet, but he isn't. There just wasn't a center available. What can you do? Jordan isn't going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn't ask him to. He's a very good offensive player, but not an overpowering offensive player."

Thanks

[gockun]

Also, if FB Ulker was not the bitchiest club ever Enes could have played actual games during those 2 years, what they have done has effects on national team as well, they need to realize this and in the future they need to stop behaving like they are above of everything else
and how is that Fener fault could you please explain? Fener just gave the papers which asked for. i believe NCAA ruler are not stupid as you think. and before you throw out all your hatred. go cry for your clup have all the best talentn at juniors and gave nothing to national team lately..

[surfer]

My friend please let me know who said that :

"We wish Jordan were 7-feet, but he isn't. There just wasn't a center available. What can you do? Jordan isn't going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn't ask him to. He's a very good offensive player, but not an overpowering offensive player."

Thanks

I believe it's Rod Thorn, the former Bulls GM. He said it after Bulls drafted Jordan.

[surfer]

and how is that Fener fault could you please explain? Fener just gave the papers which asked for. i believe NCAA ruler are not stupid as you think. and before you throw out all your hatred. go cry for your clup have all the best talentn at juniors and gave nothing to national team lately..

wow, my hatred? first of all I am a fan of FB when it comes to football, as for basketball I support Efes so I cannot actually hate FB. I am just being objective when I call FB the bitchiest club ever, it is not just because of a single case, there are many reasons. Lately I am (as with all other ppl in Turkey who don't suppport FB) getting irritated by the horrible attitude of the club and the fans aren't really helping. Do you ever think why everyone (accept for FB fans) have strong negative feelings towards Fener? Is it because FB is a greeaaat club? Funny, let's be realistic. And don't forget I am saying all of these as a FB fan in football, so believe me I am not spreading my hatred. And also believe me the easiest thing on earth is to lose a title to FB :) That is my third favourite club in basketball after Efes and GS :) Yes, I am strange person...

[gockun]

wow, my hatred? first of all I am a fan of FB when it comes to football, as for basketball I support Efes so I cannot actually hate FB. I am just being objective when I call FB the bitchiest club ever, it is not just because of a single case, there are many reasons. Lately I am (as with all other ppl in Turkey who don't suppport FB) getting irritated by the horrible attitude of the club and the fans aren't really helping. Do you ever think why everyone (accept for FB fans) have strong negative feelings towards Fener? Is it because FB is a greeaaat club? Funny, let's be realistic. And don't forget I am saying all of these as a FB fan in football, so believe me I am not spreading my hatred. And also believe me the easiest thing on earth is to lose a title to FB :) That is my third favourite club in basketball after Efes and GS :) Yes, I am strange person...

should i care about it? it means nothing to me.
still not answering my quesition.

[surfer]

should i care about it? it means nothing to me.
still not answering my quesition.

Of course it means nothing to you, since it is not easy for you to make an objective judgement. When I think of how they made him play for them in official games without a pro-contract, I bet they are not as innocent as they claim to be, and of course how did it end up like this when Enes himself was not directly paid? Also are you blind enough to not see the efforts put into this? Here's smth from a website:
Fenerbahçe's General Manager, Nadim Karakas, told the New York Times that the club had paid for all kinds of things: "Karakas said that Fenerbahce provided housing to Kanter and his family for more than three years, provided them with food and pocket money and paid Kanter a salary of more than $6,500 a month during his final season."
And here is a perspective about this:
"To be fair to the NCAA, this is a complicated issue for which they are undoubtedly receiving pressure from the Euroleague through back channels. Fenerbahçe's contact with the New York Times to get its position out in the media was clearly intended to confuse the situation and place the NCAA in a muddle, and give them an excuse to declare Kanter ineligible"
Things are not that simple, you must be looking through one eye to believe FB did not try extra efforts to keep him away from NCAA. But I am sure all this means nothing to you and this is already discussed too much and I am done with it, so that's all from me, you can believe in whatever you choose...

[Darknemo2000]

Why Turkish club would wnat to ruin one of the better Turkish prospects since a long time?

I can't say that Rytas management is saint but they dont really seem to wish to screw Valanciunas up (the one year he will play in Europe is better in my opinion than going to NBA right away as he will get his share of minutes, so I consider this as a beneficial for Valanciunas).

And shouldnt this be discussed under Turkish NT thread?

[iskoch]

You take kid to your youth team when he was 13-14.
You give him education, spend thousands of dollars,
You make him best player in his category,
When he is ready to give return of you labour,
He says: I go to USA...
And then people expect the club not to share the truth about payments with NCAA...
What else?

Enes deserved this, he ignored people who wished the best for him and listened his agent.
Many people told him that he can't play in NCAA, many people told staying in Europe and playing in EL will be much better experience for him than playing in prep school and NCAA.
Not just Fenerbahçe administrators, many many people from Turkish basketball community told this...
He ignored all, went to USA,
Got what he deserved...

I am sad that his improvement got slower of course,
But he deserved all this...
Anyway I still hope that he will be a superstar in NBA...

[Xristos]

You take kid to your youth team when he was 13-14.
You give him education, spend thousands of dollars,
You make him best player in his category,
When he is ready to give return of you labour,
He says: I go to USA...
And then people expect the club not to share the truth about payments with NCAA...
What else?

Enes deserved this, he ignored people who wished the best for him and listened his agent.
Many people told him that he can't play in NCAA, many people told staying in Europe and playing in EL will be much better experience for him than playing in prep school and NCAA.
Not just Fenerbahçe administrators, many many people from Turkish basketball community told this...
He ignored all, went to USA,
Got what he deserved...

I am sad that his improvement got slower of course,
But he deserved all this...
Anyway I still hope that he will be a superstar in NBA...


Excellent post

100% agree

[sambaras]

You take kid to your youth team when he was 13-14.
You give him education, spend thousands of dollars,
You make him best player in his category,
When he is ready to give return of you labour,
He says: I go to USA...
And then people expect the club not to share the truth about payments with NCAA...
What else?

Enes deserved this, he ignored people who wished the best for him and listened his agent.
Many people told him that he can't play in NCAA, many people told staying in Europe and playing in EL will be much better experience for him than playing in prep school and NCAA.
Not just Fenerbahçe administrators, many many people from Turkish basketball community told this...
He ignored all, went to USA,
Got what he deserved...

I am sad that his improvement got slower of course,
But he deserved all this...
Anyway I still hope that he will be a superstar in NBA...

Great explanation.I agree with all the things you said.Let's not extend this talk.People may get bored of it.

Today which prep games are going to be played?Are there any streams?

[TB-Fan]

You take kid to your youth team when he was 13-14.
You give him education, spend thousands of dollars,
You make him best player in his category,
When he is ready to give return of you labour,
He says: I go to USA...
And then people expect the club not to share the truth about payments with NCAA...
What else?

Enes deserved this, he ignored people who wished the best for him and listened his agent.
Many people told him that he can't play in NCAA, many people told staying in Europe and playing in EL will be much better experience for him than playing in prep school and NCAA.
Not just Fenerbahçe administrators, many many people from Turkish basketball community told this...
He ignored all, went to USA,
Got what he deserved...

I am sad that his improvement got slower of course,
But he deserved all this...
Anyway I still hope that he will be a superstar in NBA...

Doğa Koleji scouted Enes first. He became WC with that team. Ülker saw him play and added Enes to yout teams. Ülkerspor turned to Fenerbahce and Enes got part of them So FB Ülker has minimal influence on Enes as a player. Maybe 10%.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

iskoch, I agree to everything, with the exception I wish him to become a superstar in europe :D NBA has enough of them anyway ;)

[iskoch]

Doğa Koleji scouted Enes first. He became WC with that team. Ülker saw him play and added Enes to yout teams. Ülkerspor turned to Fenerbahce and Enes got part of them So FB Ülker has minimal influence on Enes as a player. Maybe 10%.

How many years he has trained at Ülker?
How many years he has trained at Fenerbahçe Ülker?
What's the name of current team?
Fenerbahçe? Or Ülkerspor? Or Fenerbahçe Ülker?
Or when needed Fenerbahçe, when needed Ülkerspor, when needed Fenerbahçe Ülker?

Pardon, too many questions...
I know he has came to Fenerbahçe Ülker from Ülkerspor youth team,
But there is no Ülkerspor anymore, there is just Fenerbahçe Ülker,
What you say doesn't change the fact...
Fenerbahçe and Ülker couldn't get any return from Enes,
For what they spent so much for him if he wouldn't give anything back?

[Italian Pride]

39-23 greece at half time...

[Xristos]

Koufos 14 pts at half time :)

[Adon]

@ Xristos
Have you found a link?

[inefeswetrust]

turkey looks much better today so far, enes as well..

[barchen]

Is Khryapa 100% now?
10 Viktors Hrjapa 7:31 0-1 0-1 1-1 0 1 4TO 1 1
his stats in 35th minute...

[Apollo64]

Poland-Greece 50-71 final.

Germany looking very good and leading Turkey 31-23.

[Mindozas]

Is Khryapa 100% now?
10 Viktors Hrjapa 7:31 0-1 0-1 1-1 0 1 4TO 1 1
his stats in 35th minute...

It's just his 1st game, so kinda expected.

Btw Mozgov with some dumb foul on Bertans got ejected from the game in 2nd qtr, Russia struggled without him and without any C left, but in 4th made a run and won comfortable

[s-e-e]

Poland-Greece 50-71 final.

Germany looking very good and leading Turkey 31-23.

Germany so far have an impressive offensive performance tonight.

Btw yesterday I could hardly find a ticket, and today tickets were already sold out when I reached to the hall. Just a friendly tournament this, and it's summer time, but tickets are sold out. Amazing...

[Get Rich Or Die Playin]

Latvia still looked rusty and with not so fresh legs as they had biggest physical load past week and a half which obiviously took some toll. It was first game this summer for Blums and Strelnieks - our starting guards and it made our game look better for some parts. But still - a lot of work to be done.

About Mozgov - he took very stupid flagrant foul and got ejected (here you can check out photos (http://sportacentrs.com/basketbols/ec_viriesiem_2011/foto/romans_koksarovs/10595?show_thumbs#p)how that foul looked and almost a brawl), but apparently coaches agreed to let him return and after half timea, probably because this was friendly game and Blatt needed him on court. Later he rolled ankle so he couldn't play that much anyway.

Stats:
http://basket.lv/viriesu_izlase/?xframesrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.basket.lv%2Fplain%2Fv iriesu_izlase%2Fprotokols%2F27015&xframeid=basketlvframe

[hustlerlt]

After the first half 43-35 Germany is leading against Turkey.Turkey looks better today,but still not as good as they could.Of course it's only their 2nd game,so they will only continue to improve,like every other team in the tournament.
Now I'm watching this game mainly to see how Kanter is able to play.I've got to say that today he's looking better.Enes still isn't playing on the level I expected him to play,but still he just looks a lot better today.Yesterday his defense for the most of the time looked awful and today it's alright.His man to man defensive ability is pretty good when playing against other bigs,because Kanter is already really strong for any european big.His help defense also looks better,but still he doesn't look to quite understand when exactly to rotate and how far to be from his defensive assignment.While rebounding he also looks to put in slightly more effort than yesterday.He still lost a few rebounds,but at least I saw him trying to fight for them a lot more.Also he very often tries to box out his opponents rather than try to move towards the ball,so he probably won't be a very efficient rebounder,but his box outs should allow his teammates to grab more boards.Offensively he still looks pretty bad,although he's setting better screens for his teammates.When he has the ball most of the time he looks unsure of what to do,so he might struggle against a tight defense,but that's probably mainly because of his inexperience.Overall today he's playing better,but still the hype that Enes and his agent created is too big.

[s-e-e]

Enes Kanter hasn't been playing bb for the last 2 years. He's got a logical excuse.

I didn't like our defense over all. Very dissapointing. We've got to prepare fast, not much time left.

[Daywalker989]

I know ıt's only our 2.game but ı worry about Orhun Ene..I want Tanjevic again,but it cant

[Aleksandar22]

Germany is looking good so far in this tournament. It will be interesting 2 see how will they incorporate RiDIRKulous and Kaman in the team.
Yesterday they played wery good against Serbia, and today they are still leading against Turkey (63-53 at the moment for Germany).
About Kanter...i think that tomorrow we shall see how good he is really against Serbia's C's (krstic, Perovic)

[Roy M]

Israel (without injured Casppi) is keeping their dismal form after lost to Villanova collage 92:94.

Eliyahu 20 points, Blu 18 (7 reb), Burstein 12 and Pnini+Halperin 11 each to Israel.
Cheek with 34 points to Villanova.

[Daywalker989]

last 5 minutes.Germany 71-67 Turkey.. We really need Ömer Asık and Semih Erden

[pasha]

We cant win any game if we only rely on shooting.
0 points from our Bigs so far (except Ilyasovas jumpers)

[gockun]

You take kid to your youth team when he was 13-14.
You give him education, spend thousands of dollars,
You make him best player in his category,
When he is ready to give return of you labour,
He says: I go to USA...
And then people expect the club not to share the truth about payments with NCAA...
What else?

Enes deserved this, he ignored people who wished the best for him and listened his agent.Many people told him that he can't play in NCAA, many people told staying in Europe and playing in EL will be much better experience for him than playing in prep school and NCAA.
Not just Fenerbahçe administrators, many many people from Turkish basketball community told this...
He ignored all, went to USA,
Got what he deserved...

I am sad that his improvement got slower of course,
But he deserved all this...
Anyway I still hope that he will be a superstar in NBA...
i dont he listened his agent. i think it was his father who caused all of this

[gockun]

Doğa Koleji scouted Enes first. He became WC with that team. Ülker saw him play and added Enes to yout teams. Ülkerspor turned to Fenerbahce and Enes got part of them So FB Ülker has minimal influence on Enes as a player. Maybe 10%.

No it was Samanyolu koleji Ankara. then he go Fenerbahce koleji and last Doğa Koleji
and moreover when he won that WC championship with Doğa koleji, he was also Fenerbahce player more then 3 years.

[baelor]

hey guys (especially my hommies) ! I'm away from Lithuania for a couple of days ... is it possible to watch LTU-ESP on internet live? or just livescore?:confused:

thanks

[gockun]

Germany so far have an impressive offensive performance tonight.

Btw yesterday I could hardly find a ticket, and today tickets were already sold out when I reached to the hall. Just a friendly tournament this, and it's summer time, but tickets are sold out. Amazing...

İzmir bb fans was great today.

[sagenas]

hey guys (especially my hommies) ! I'm away from Lithuania for a couple of days ... is it possible to watch LTU-ESP on internet live? or just livescore?:confused:

thanks

It is always possible. :D

http://www.lshunter.tv/ here will be some links.

Or http://sport24.lt if you want to chat with some other Lithuanians who watch games at the same time.

[Darknemo2000]

Kanter once again did not have had a good game, but at least today his defense did not make me cringe all the time like the other day.

[Mindozas]

hey guys (especially my hommies) ! I'm away from Lithuania for a couple of days ... is it possible to watch LTU-ESP on internet live? or just livescore?:confused:

thanks

Possible. Livescore should be in spanish federation site (http://www.feb.es/index.aspx) as always (we suck on it)

Streams f.e. here (http://www.lshunter.tv/basketball-live-streaming-video.html)

[Victorious]

Just saw the first game of Zouros' Greece. Several things were obvious, but expected:

It's obvious Greece has less quality because they miss a lot of players. The inexperience among the young ones is prevalent and there is no chemistry yet, but this is very logical because Greece changed the coach.

However, I particularly like the fact that Greece plays like Greece. It's a fighting team which plays with passion and defense.

I am curious to see how this team will evolve, but putting Zouros at the wheels seems to me a good thing.

[hustlerlt]

Kanter once again did not have had a good game, but at least today his defense did not make me cringe all the time like the other day.
My thoughts exactly.His offense still wasn't really good today,neither was his defense,but at least it wasn't terrible.

[barchen]

pls has anyone stats of yesterdays match turkey-ukraine? thx lot i cant find it...

[baelor]

Possible. Livescore should be in spanish federation site (http://www.feb.es/index.aspx) as always (we suck on it)

Streams f.e. here (http://www.lshunter.tv/basketball-live-streaming-video.html)

Thanks guys. Hope this latvian wi-fi works better tomorrow:o

[Overthetop]

Kanter once again did not have had a good game, but at least today his defense did not make me cringe all the time like the other day.

He suffers for what he has done in last 2 years, in other words he hasn't. Nevertheless, I believe that he will be better day by day till the championship.

[sagenas]

pls has anyone stats of yesterdays match turkey-ukraine? thx lot i cant find it...

I have no time to search original source with original names but this may help you a little:


Turkijos rinktinė: Cenkas Akyolas 13, Omeras Onanas 9, Hidayetas Turkoglu ir Furkanas Aldemiras po 8, Enesas Kanteris 7 (6 atk. kam.), Enderas Arslanas 6, Oguzas Savas 5, Baris Ermis ir Emiras Preldzičius po 4, Ersanas Ilyasova 3, Keremas Tunčeri 2.

Ukrainos rinktinė: Oleksejus Pečerovas 20, Stevenas Burttas 15 (5 atk. kam., 6 rez. perd.), Viacheslavas Kravtsovas 8, Denisas Lukašovas ir Kyrylas Fasenko (8 atk. kam.) po 7.

[Daywalker989]

Bosnia:58-57 Italy..Game result

[Jon_Koncak]

What's wrong with Galinari?Why isn't he playing?

[Remon]

Just saw the first game of Zouros' Greece. Several things were obvious, but expected:

It's obvious Greece has less quality because they miss a lot of players. The inexperience among the young ones is prevalent and there is no chemistry yet, but this is very logical because Greece changed the coach.

However, I particularly like the fact that Greece plays like Greece. It's a fighting team which plays with passion and defense.

I am curious to see how this team will evolve, but putting Zouros at the wheels seems to me a good thing.

The game vs Poland? Where did you watch it?

[Toxicity]

What's wrong with Galinari?Why isn't he playing?

It's a mistery... :rolleyes:

I hope to see him with the team in one of the next 2 games... otherwise we'll play just the last tournament (Acropolis) with the big 3 together and few days before the Eurobasket... not too much time to find the right way to play.

[Jon_Koncak]

you seriously mean noone knows?Weird..is he injured or insurance problem or sth else?

[Toxicity]

you seriously mean noone knows?Weird..is he injured or insurance problem or sth else?

Big toe contusion few days before the Cyprus tournament. We all thought it was just a light injury but he's expected to miss all the Rimini tournament so i don't know what to think...

[Jon_Koncak]

doesn't sound good..this eurobasket's preparation month is turning into a who's gonna lose the most players contest..and still 20 days and numerous friendlies to be played.

[madmax]

so it looks like Kanter is continuing his struggles in senior basketball - his statline today is 0 pts 0-3 fg 4 reb 1blk 1stl in 18 minutes against Kaman and Dirl less Germany...kid is clearly not ready to play at this level yet. Any chance he could be cut from turkish roster if he continues to struggle?

[TB-Fan]

so it looks like Kanter is continuing his struggles in senior basketball - his statline today is 0 pts 0-3 fg 4 reb 1blk 1stl in 18 minutes against Kaman and Dirl less Germany...kid is clearly not ready to play at this level yet. Any chance he could be cut from turkish roster if he continues to struggle?

İ think either him or Furkan Aldemir will be in Roster. Stats don't say much sometimes. Today he looked much better then yesterday. He shows that he can defend one on one very well. İ will wait for adidas cup to make a judgement because no one in Team is fit right now. As I said turkish training system is all about creating a fighting team with high tempo in defence. I would worry if we played well at these prep games. I expect us to suck even more in the tournament in Germany.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

Guys, this Valanciunas is better than Kantner is getting pretty boring to be honest ;) Give both some time and talk about who is better in a 5 years period as right now you can only over-simplfy stuff without any real conclusions.

I am not sure if Pleiss wouldn't be a better investment for Germany than Kaman, at least from seen at the last championship. Him and Benzig are guarantee Germany won't go downhill once Dirk retires.

[Victorious]

The game vs Poland? Where did you watch it?

Raisport 1. free to air:)

[Italian Pride]

Italy ugly, fortunately it was only a friendly ...

we don't keep defending anyone, maybe even for heavy legs due to the preparation, so we made ​​some mistakes on offense shot too open and looked only at the end Bargnani in post,little movement of men and ball,then Datome was unrecognizable in this game, last season with Rome seemed to have unlocked,i hope that it happens also in NT within a short time, I have great confidence in him...

now we'll see this evening against poland how we play...

[Darknemo2000]

He shows that he can defend one on one very well.

Agreed, but his pick'n'roll defense is still so atrocious. He seriously needs to do something about it otherwise even if he makes the team he wont get much play-time as opponents upon noticing this particular flaw would be pick-n'rolling him to death unless some additional help defense steps up but then other players would be left open.

At least today he was respectable with his one on one defense. He made few flaws but it wasnt falling apart like in a game against Ukraine.

[Silvio]

Netherlands - Georgia 72-77
http://www.basketball.nl/content.php/nl/110/nieuws.html?id=2886,nl

Oranje scorers: Robin Smeulders 15, Dan Gadzuric 11, Jessey Voorn 11, Rogier Jansen 8, Kenneth van Kempen 8, Arvin Slagter 5, Dimeo van der Horst 5, Craig Osaikhwuwuomwam 3, Stefan Wessels 2, Aron Royé 2, Ties Theeuwkens 2.


After being thrashed last week in England by Great Britain 96-70 and by Nigeria 84-66, former NBA player Dan Gadzuric joined Dutch NT this week. Gadzilla 11 points and 6 rebounds in 15 minutes only ... Holland another loss.


Tomorrow at Almere, Netherlands:
Israel - Georgia
Netherlands - Villanova (NCAA team)

[gimme85]

Actually, I don't expect much from Turkish NT in EB based on what I saw last night.
-Turkish NT urgently needs Erden and Asik both hasn't fully recovered yet and I think they will be not 100% ready till EB:(
-Oguz Savas! are you kidding! there should be no room for him in NT,so unathletic and heavy-footed. NT can't rely on solely Savas as center( Kanter, not sure)
-For germany side, team's been solid as rock so far:) Based on Nowitzki and Kaman performances Germany could become another contender for EB.
-it is the fact that Jonas is way to good center than Enes, there is nothing to discuss about.Enes will likely need some time( more than 1 month for sure) to fight as big men.

[Victorious]

What's all this fuzz about Kanter? He's just a young prospect. Hasn't proven anything so far. So why do some of you consider him to be some great star? Do NBA drafts make players better? Get real, he needs years of work.

Even Erden and Asik need to really prove themselves. They never showed anything considerable in the NBA or Euroleague. Last year they had a reasonable WC at home. That's all. So where does this put Kanter? Far into the future.

[Jon_Koncak]

Villanova-Israel 94-92..Villanova is a college team that lost in the first round of ncaa tournment!Says it all about the level of half or more teams of this eurobasket.

[Adon]

Villanova-Israel 94-92..Villanova is a college team that lost in the first round of ncaa tournment!Says it all about the level of half or more teams of this eurobasket.

It's a gene thing. Europeans are genetically inferior than Americans ;)
And anyway, European bb sucks, right?

[hustlerlt]

Villanova-Israel 94-92..Villanova is a college team that lost in the first round of ncaa tournment!Says it all about the level of half or more teams of this eurobasket.
That only says about Israel's level without Casspi.Israel definitely isn't considered as favorites to win anything in this championship and they ussualy don't play good in EC's.Also they were playing without their star player and I can say that more than 3 quarters of this years Eurobasket teams would beat any team from NCAA.

[goga78]

Villanova-Israel 94-92..Villanova is a college team that lost in the first round of ncaa tournment!Says it all about the level of half or more teams of this eurobasket.

You are aware that one team is a national team that is in the process of trying out things and mixing up the roster in order to find out, which questionable players will play at EBC and which not, tring to avoid injuries, after the team's main star sustained one and the other is a regular team that is playing a whole season together that is taking such a game more seriously because otherwise there would be no reason to travel across the ocean?

I still have games on video at home, where e.g. Team Greece has soundly beaten a college All-Star squad in 1993, featuring Sam Cassell, Isaiah Rider, Lindsey Hunter, Nick van Exel, Michael Curry, Doug Edwards, Corie Blount etc. Team USA has landed a buzzer beater victory over France, courtesy by Isaiah Rider. All of those guys were already drafted and ready to enter the NBA, instantly becoming stars and useful role players. So? That NBA generation was bad or was European basketball that good, as Greece or France, nowhere near successful bball powerhouses by that time managed to hold their own against the US squad?

You can compare the comparable and not just look at the final score. Of course, it's always nice when you team wins rather than when it loses, but things have to be put in perspective. After a tournament, where Israel played good D, it worked at other parts of its game, scoring 92 pts. but also conceding 94 pts. Finally, do you really think that Germany (w/o DN) is stronger than Serbia or Turkey, as it has beaten both, winning the Four Nations tournament?

Imho there is no need to throw the towel, if a European NT loses to a US college team. Heck, the mighty Soviet Union with a young Sabonis has split games in its US tour through colleges.

[goga78]

That only says about Israel's level without Casspi.Israel definitely isn't considered as favorites to win anything in this championship and they ussualy don't play good in EC's.Also they were playing without their star player and I can say that more than 3 quarters of this years Eurobasket teams would beat any team from NCAA.

Was this game for ISrael anthing other than trying out things and sorting out players?
Usually, Israel performs well at ECs. Having no centers and yet landing victories and close games against much stronger teams on paper, reaching the quarterfinal or falling to the finalist by a close score in the cross eliminations isn't that bad. Last EBC was an exception, where the team failed to advance from the group stage. It is not about medals for Israel. It is about a good fight. Would it tr to go for medals, it would give the citizenship to a good US center and then it would be set on all positions.

[hustlerlt]

Was this game for ISrael anthing other than trying out things and sorting out players?
Usually, Israel performs well at ECs. Having no centers and yet landing victories and close games against much stronger teams on paper, reaching the quarterfinal or falling to the finalist by a close score in the cross eliminations isn't that bad. Last EBC was an exception, where the team failed to advance from the group stage. It is not about medals for Israel. It is about a good fight. Would it tr to go for medals, it would give the citizenship to a good US center and then it would be set on all positions.
What I meant to say that they never are considered as contenders for championships.They might fight well in the group stages this year,but I doubt they'll will be higher in their group than teams like Germany,France,Serbia and Italy if Galinari is playing.

[surfer]

Actually, I don't expect much from Turkish NT in EB based on what I saw last night.

Let's not be that pessimistic, from yesterday I saw that:
-Hedo played like 10% of his true capacity
-Ersan also played somewhere between %20-30
-I think Ömer Onan was just great
-Emir also seems to be adapting to the team, I am optimistic about him
-I actually liked Dogus Balbay, he was good on defense from time to time but he has to be more consistent
-Don't forget that Tunceri, our real play maker did not play
-Don't forget that our best defensive player Sinan did not play
-About Enes, I don't think he is trying at all at this stage, it looks like maybe he's afraid of getting injured, he played too soft, and let's not forget we did not use our centers or power forwards, just tried shots from outside so I guess he might be better with a guard who can play pick-n-roll, Tunceri is really good at it
-Everybody says that the Italy camp was just too heavy physically so players need sometime to recover from that
-I think Ömer Asik and Semih Erden will be ready by September
-My only concern is Kerem Gönlüm, it seems we will have a hard time with PF position because there is only Ersan, Furkan is not just ready for this level and also maybe Emir can play as PF from time to time
Overall, I think we will be much much better in Lietuva, yesterday evening was like Germany beating the a Turkish team playing with %30-40 capacity, actually they should have won by 20+

[Jon_Koncak]

There was a time when Us Navy team would beat european national teams so it doesn't surprise me that Sabonis ussr would lose to college teams back then.The gap has closen in the recent years.That a national team consisting of 3 rotation players of euroleagues runner up loses to a college team and not even a good one is as embarrasing as it gets.Also proves that Jonathan Givony has no idea about basketball when he's claiming that lithuania's u19 team would win the ncaa tournament.

[gimme85]

Yeah we can say Erden and Asik are mediocre player but at least they are athletic and strong . Without them, Turkish NT painted area has got a huge hole. For warm-up match, nobody throws a towel or do anything else .It is just apparent that Turkish NT is nowhere near terms of 'ready' especially considering Spain and Lithuania, it seems not likely, IMO.:cool:

[madmax]

There was a time when Us Navy team would beat european national teams so it doesn't surprise me that Sabonis ussr would lose to college teams back then.The gap has closen in the recent years.That a national team consisting of 3 rotation players of euroleagues runner up loses to a college team and not even a good one is as embarrasing as it gets.Also proves that Jonathan Givony has no idea about basketball when he's claiming that lithuania's u19 team would win the ncaa tournament.

he's got a point though...with Jonas in the team he would be owning all of these college kids and swatting and blocking their shot attempts left and right. Also that LT U-19 team has some other really nice complimentary players and with everyone playing up to their potential they could win

[Silvio]

Turkey always plays god damn awful in preparation games. I think by now players developed some kind of superstition ... perhaps they believe if they would play good in preparation period, then results would be bad when real games start. Probably fans too ... I see they don't boo them for losing to inferior teams.


Most funny moment:
Turkey is 2 points up with 5 seconds remaining in overtime and Hedo is going to inbound ball. It's obvious Ukrainians are gonna foul. And there's Kanter jumping and waving "Here I am, Hedo. I'm completely open, pass me the ball". Enes approaches Turkoglu closer and closer, he's maybe only one meter from him, still he waves, yells something (on Turkish, but it's not hard to guess he's saying "I'm open." Of course You're open, Ukrainians are not stupid. ). But Hedo is ignoring him, rather risking 5 seconds turnover than giving him to shoot free throws. Finally Onan somehow gets open despite 5 Ukraine players marking 3 Turkish, gets ball, gets fouled, then seals the deal scoring two freebies.

[Adon]

There was a time when Us Navy team would beat european national teams so it doesn't surprise me that Sabonis ussr would lose to college teams back then.The gap has closen in the recent years.That a national team consisting of 3 rotation players of euroleagues runner up loses to a college team and not even a good one is as embarrasing as it gets.Also proves that Jonathan Givony has no idea about basketball when he's claiming that lithuania's u19 team would win the ncaa tournament.

When Barca kicked the as..s of the NBA champions Lakers, what was your conclusion? That NBA is inferior than EL ? That the level of NBA has dropped to the floor?
And Barca is not an unbeatable team for European standards.;)

[gimme85]

Let's not be that pessimistic, from yesterday I saw that:
-Hedo played like 10% of his true capacity
-Ersan also played somewhere between %20-30
-I think Ömer Onan was just great
-Emir also seems to be adapting to the team, I am optimistic about him
-I actually liked Dogus Balbay, he was good on defense from time to time but he has to be more consistent
-Don't forget that Tunceri, our real play maker did not play
-Don't forget that our best defensive player Sinan did not play
-About Enes, I don't think he is trying at all at this stage, it looks like maybe he's afraid of getting injured, he played too soft, and let's not forget we did not use our centers or power forwards, just tried shots from outside so I guess he might be better with a guard who can play pick-n-roll, Tunceri is really good at it
-Everybody says that the Italy camp was just too heavy physically so players need sometime to recover from that
-I think Ömer Asik and Semih Erden will be ready by September
-My only concern is Kerem Gönlüm, it seems we will have a hard time with PF position because there is only Ersan, Furkan is not just ready for this level and also maybe Emir can play as PF from time to time
Overall, I think we will be much much better in Lietuva, yesterday evening was like Germany beating the a Turkish team playing with %30-40 capacity, actually they should have won by 20+

-Hedo has talent but he sucks when it comes to lead the team.(No offense pls.)
-I agree on Omer Onan, he was just great:)
-Also dont underestimate Germany NT , they beat us fair and square before and not so long ago:(
-And let's face it,our chance of making through finals is pretty damn dreamy...

[Fearless]

There was a time when Us Navy team would beat european national teams so it doesn't surprise me that Sabonis ussr would lose to college teams back then.The gap has closen in the recent years.That a national team consisting of 3 rotation players of euroleagues runner up loses to a college team and not even a good one is as embarrasing as it gets.Also proves that Jonathan Givony has no idea about basketball when he's claiming that lithuania's u19 team would win the ncaa tournament.

1) Villanova has new recruits coming in, so it maybe a lot better than last season
2)Villanova has consistently been a top20-30 bb-college..
3) You should know better than me that the ncaa tournament consists of single knock-out games, Villanova may have been outed in the first round but they were consistently ranked in the TOP25 by AP and ESPN all year long..

[Alyosha12]

Turkey always plays god damn awful in preparation games. I think by now players developed some kind of superstition ... perhaps they believe if they would play good in preparation period, then results would be bad when real games start. Probably fans too ... I see they don't boo them for losing to inferior teams.


Most funny moment:
Turkey is 2 points up with 5 seconds remaining in overtime and Hedo is going to inbound ball. It's obvious Ukrainians are gonna foul. And there's Kanter jumping and waving "Here I am, Hedo. I'm completely open, pass me the ball". Enes approaches Turkoglu closer and closer, he's maybe only one meter from him, still he waves, yells something (on Turkish, but it's not hard to guess he's saying "I'm open." Of course You're open, Ukrainians are not stupid. ). But Hedo is ignoring him, rather risking 5 seconds turnover than giving him to shoot free throws. Finally Onan somehow gets open despite 5 Ukraine players marking 3 Turkish, gets ball, gets fouled, then seals the deal scoring two freebies.

And TBH in the last 10' years Turkey didn't play so well come tournament time either, when it wasn't played on their home turf.
Poland 8th, Spain 11th, Sweden 12th... So i wouldn't put so little worth in preparation games, and say Turkey always sucks in preparations, because Turkey also sucked in the tournament for the past few Eurobaskets.

Of course preparation games do not show all, and Turkey is playing without their key player in Tunceri who's growth as a player was key for Turkey. But we also must not forget that in a lot of the games at the WC Turkey shoot +50% or close to thaht, from the 3pt land, which had a lot to do with the home crowd, and a home crowd in Lithuanian they will not have.

[janketa]

-Hedo has talent but he sucks when it comes to lead the team.(No offense pls.)
-I agree on Omer Onan, he was just great:)
-Also dont underestimate Germany NT , they beat us fair and square before and not so long ago:(
-And let's face it,our chance of making through finals is pretty damn dreamy...
The biggest problem for Turkey is pg spot in the team. When Tunceri is not in the game, there is no idea what to do with the ball, no assist at all.
I think that Ender Arslan is worst pg I ever saw! Both, Dogus and Baris are way better than him.
That is main reason why centers don't play at high level, becouse they need assists and balls inside the paint, but last night we couldn't see that at all.
Tonight, with Tunceri back, we could see better Turkey against Serbia.

[surfer]

And TBH in the last 10' years Turkey didn't play so well come tournament time either, when it wasn't played on their home turf.
Poland 8th, Spain 11th, Sweden 12th... So i wouldn't put so little worth in preparation games, and say Turkey always sucks in preparations, because Turkey also sucked in the tournament for the past few Eurobaskets.

It's true that the performance was not so great lately, but although we were 8th in Poland we managed to beat Spain, Serbia and Lithuania and a very close loss to Greece kept us from the semi-finals. Besides nobody was expecting a huge success from us, unlike Slovenia, who has always been the biggest under achiever in world basketball considering their players and potential:rolleyes:

edit: also for the last EC, we could easily have been 5th but after we lost our chance to get a medal the team did not bother at all and lost to a French team which we smashed 2 times in qualification because simply we had a ticket for WC already, well there are too many could have beens, let's focus on the future:p

[Jon_Koncak]

When Barca kicked the as..s of the NBA champions Lakers, what was your conclusion? That NBA is inferior than EL ? That the level of NBA has dropped to the floor?
And Barca is not an unbeatable team for European standards.;)

Barcelona is a club consisted of quality and higly paid players.Villanova is a college team with noone older than 22,and only 3-4 projected to become professional basketball players.It's not nearly half as embarrasing for nba champions to lose to euroleague winners compared to a top 16 european national team defeated from a bunch of 20 year old students.

By the way i didn't conclude that NCAA basketball is at a higer level than european one,just that the quality of some teams featured in 2011 eurobasket is abysmal.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

It's true that the performance was not so great lately, but although we were 8th in Poland we managed to beat Spain, Serbia and Lithuania and a very close loss to Greece kept us from the semi-finals. Besides nobody was expecting a huge success from us, unlike Slovenia, who has always been the biggest under achiever in world basketball considering their players and potential:rolleyes:
And like Slovenia's performances in 03', 05' and 07' have anything to do with this subject?
You don't take the critique of your team very well, don't you? :)

Without support like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KKnTuf81mg&feature=related), we might even achieve something from time to time, sadly we're not big&important enough to act as a smarta$$es :cool:

[Darknemo2000]

It's true that the performance was not so great lately, but although we were 8th in Poland we managed to beat Spain, Serbia and Lithuania

Who haven't beaten Lithuania in 2009? Thats not an achievement really - we were the clowns of the tournament in Poland.

[Silvio]

And TBH in the last 10' years Turkey didn't play so well come tournament time either, when it wasn't played on their home turf.
Poland 8th, Spain 11th, Sweden 12th... So i wouldn't put so little worth in preparation games, and say Turkey always sucks in preparations, because Turkey also sucked in the tournament for the past few Eurobaskets.

Of course preparation games do not show all, and Turkey is playing without their key player in Tunceri who's growth as a player was key for Turkey. But we also must not forget that in a lot of the games at the WC Turkey shoot +50% or close to that, from the 3pt land, which had a lot to do with the home crowd, and a home crowd in Lithuanian they will not have.

What are You talking about, in Tanjevic era Turkey played well at 3/4 competitions

2006 WC 6th, out of blue, biggest positive surprise of tournament
2007 EC 11th
2008 not qualified for Olympics
2009 EC 8th, but played great, deserved medal
2010 WC 2nd

People mostly just see that 8th place in Poland 2009 and think they were doing bad. Not so.

September 12 Turkey won Spain (gold medal) 63–60
September 14 Turkey won Serbia (silver medal) 69-64
September 16 Turkey lost to Slovenia (4th place) 67-69
September 17 Turkey lost to Greece (bronze medal) 74-76 overtime

Key was Turkey having nasty schedule, played 4 games in 6 nights against other four of top 5 teams (two wins and two very close losses).
In the meanwhile, Greece played in much easier group, resting players in some games (some went even so far to say Greeks were tanking some games).

September 19 Turkey lost to France in 5th to 8th place game - but Turks lead by something like 20 points in 1st half, then let France win. Yes, Turks let them win game, because Turkey already was qualified for World Championship as host nation and France needed win to qualify for WC.

[Darknemo2000]

There was a time when Us Navy team would beat european national teams so it doesn't surprise me that Sabonis ussr would lose to college teams back then.The gap has closen in the recent years.That a national team consisting of 3 rotation players of euroleagues runner up loses to a college team and not even a good one is as embarrasing as it gets.Also proves that Jonathan Givony has no idea about basketball when he's claiming that lithuania's u19 team would win the ncaa tournament.

Maybe Lithuanian U19 team would beat that Israel team without Casspi too? After all Valanciunas by himself is a quite a force particularly for teams who dont have much to offer in the front line.

I mean our Student NT (which is actually our Student Team B as Team A consists from Zalgiris and Rytas players that were not allowed to play) have beaten Latvian NT too.

[Kalashnikov]

Yes, Turks let them win game, because Turkey already was qualified for World Championship as host nation and France needed win to qualify for WC.

this must be in the top-10 absurdities ever written in this forum.

of course Turkey was performing well until the QF against Greece. Then, they just gave up. Doesn't matter why, how.

[pablonis]

There was a time when Us Navy team would beat european national teams so it doesn't surprise me that Sabonis ussr would lose to college teams back then.The gap has closen in the recent years.That a national team consisting of 3 rotation players of euroleagues runner up loses to a college team and not even a good one is as embarrasing as it gets.Also proves that Jonathan Givony has no idea about basketball when he's claiming that lithuania's u19 team would win the ncaa tournament.

And you're the one that does, right? :D:D:D

[Fearless]

Barcelona is a club consisted of quality and higly paid players.Villanova is a college team with noone older than 22,and only 3-4 projected to become professional basketball players.It's not nearly half as embarrasing for nba champions to lose to euroleague winners compared to a top 16 european national team defeated from a bunch of 20 year old students.

By the way i didn't conclude that NCAA basketball is at a higer level than european one,just that the quality of some teams featured in 2011 eurobasket is abysmal.

So (or even worse) is the quality of some teams featured in the NBA..

[Daywalker989]

last 15 minute for Turkey-Serbia. Hedo,O.Asık,Semih dont play..Probably K.Tunceri and S.Güler going to play

[Silvio]

this must be in the top-10 absurdities ever written in this forum.

of course Turkey was performing well until the QF against Greece. Then, they just gave up. Doesn't matter why, how.

English, please. This is not understandable. Quoting only small (and unimportant) part of post doesn't help.
Completely understandable ... except the part where you're trying to insult me for unknown reason.

[Adon]

English, please. This is not understandable. Quoting only small (and unimportant) part of post doesn't help.
Completely understandable ... except the part where you're trying to insult me for unknown reason.

His post was indeed completely understandable. Your post is an enigma. :confused:

[Xristos]

Preldzic dominating the game

[Daywalker989]

I Really dont think Turkey can be succesfull with Orhun Ene:rolleyes:

[pasha]

Enes Pickn'roll defense is so bad.

[Silvio]

Israel does not have true center for maybe a decade now. Also, they have no top class PG. Next, most of their players actively refuse to play defense. Imagine Italy (not having a clue have to play defense), then go even one step beyond (on top of not having clue, showing no desire to play defense at all). Maybe Casspi and other younger players will change that 70's mentality ... we'll see.

For now, it's not unusual if they play close game vs some NCAA team. It would not be surprise if they won yesterday by 20 points margin. Same if they would lose by 20 - it all depends if their shots are falling in , they have no plan B.

Besides NBA-er Casspi, Israelis have handful of (offensively) good players: Burstein, Halperin, Blu, Eliyahu. Only Eliyahu played at Cyprus tournament. Other 3 top players joined team for this tournament in Netherlands (Casspi was supposed to join to, but got injured in practice) . This was first game with team (this summer's first) for Burstein, Halperin and Blue.

Bottom line:
Israel is nor typical Euro national team, nor one having some chances for quarterfinals at Eurobasket (let alone medal chances) . Then again, so is maybe even half of 24 teams, there's maybe dozen of teams that deserve one or more of attributes: atypical, poor quality, weird, strange ... and similar.

Conclusion
1) Maccabi Tel Aviv = lot of money = powerhouse in Euroepan club basketball
2) Israeli NT = not many talents + undersized + strange approach = at best middle of the pack European national team among top 24 (if Caspi is out - not even middle)
3) There is absolutely no sense to compare basketball clubs with national team of same country, especially in this case

[inefeswetrust]

I Really dont think Turkey can be succesfull with Orhun Ene:rolleyes:
maybe you should keep up with them a lil more..

team s just tired after the camp in italy. they re not physically ready at all. serbia beat us twice last year in preparation games but you know what happened later. these are just practices, we cannot win all the games.

[Silvio]

His post was indeed completely understandable. Your post is an enigma. :confused:
Let me help you understand it better. My main point is:
In 2009 Turkey played better than Greece, Turks won Serbia and Spain which in turn trashed Greece easily. Greece didn't play bad in Poland, they definitely were better than teams like Croatia or France. So, Greece was top 5 quality team at last Eurobasket ... but Turkey played even better than them.

I don't care if Greece won Turkey in mutual match (and eventually was placed better thanks to it), that was lucky punch, mainly caused by very tough schedule for Turkey coming into that match and very soft schedule for Greece at same time.

[Adon]

Let me help you understand it better. My main point is:
In 2009 Turkey played better than Greece, Turks won Serbia and Spain which in turn trashed Greece easily. Greece didn't play bad in Poland, they definitely were better than teams like Croatia or France. So, Greece was top 5 quality team at last Eurobasket ... but Turkey played even better than them.

I don't care if Greece won Turkey in mutual match (and eventually was placed better thanks to it), that was lucky punch, mainly caused by very tough schedule for Turkey coming into that match and very soft schedule for Greece at same time.

ok, I get it now. Turkey took a lucky punch and collapsed. :rolleyes:
And this is the objective view of a neutral (Croatian?) observer. Very strange.

But I was referring to your other post which I had quoted. And more specifically about the "not understandable" and the "completely understandable" contradiction. Did you change your mind in the middle of your 2 sentences post, or what?

[pasha]

Shoot, shoot, shoot. No post game at all. How many post up moves did we do this tournament? 5? Does Orhun Ene really think we can win games only by shooting without involving our bigs?

And hopefully Ender Arslan gets cut, but I dont think Ene will do that though.

[Daywalker989]

Shoot, shoot, shoot. No post game at all. How many post up moves did we do this tournament? 5? Does Orhun Ene really think we can win games only by shooting without involving our bigs?


After Tanjevic, Oktay Mahmuti or Erman Kunter could come;)

[inefeswetrust]

never knew doğuş was a black guy.. did you guys know that? :D

[hustlerlt]

Ukraine beat Germany 81:67(23:14,23:20,21:14,14:19).Top scorers for Ukraine were V.Kravcov 18,O.Pecherov 16(9 reb.),S.Burtt 12.Top scorers for Germany were J.Jagla and T.Pleiss with 16.

[Silvio]

ok, I get it now. Turkey took a lucky punch and collapsed. :rolleyes:
And this is the objective view of a neutral (Croatian?) observer. Very strange.

But I was referring to your other post which I had quoted. And more specifically about the "not understandable" and the "completely understandable" contradiction. Did you change your mind in the middle of your 2 sentences post, or what?

Yes, I meant "not understandable" and "completely not understandable" .

I mixed up things. LOL, I'm saying I completely don't understand him and then I do confusing mistakes myself.

Good eye. Thanks mate.

[Daywalker989]

Tanjevic back to us please:(

[pasha]

Dogus Balbay must stay in the roster. Such a special athlete and defender

[inefeswetrust]

from now on, DOĞUŞ IS MY MAN :cool: \m/

[Daywalker989]

Serbia 83-58 Turkey

Savanovic my man.It will be great watching him in Turkey next year

[Darknemo2000]

Didnt see the Turkey game. How did Kanter play? What are his stats?

[janketa]

Dogus Balbay must stay in the roster. Such a special athlete and defender

I apsolutely agree, Dogus showed that he deserved to be second PG.
In last quarter we saw that Turkish bench played egal with Serbin bench.
Orhun Ene isn't right man to coach Turkish team, that's for sure.

[KWSN-Men]

Let me help you understand it better. My main point is:
In 2009 Turkey played better than Greece, Turks won Serbia and Spain which in turn trashed Greece easily. Greece didn't play bad in Poland, they definitely were better than teams like Croatia or France. So, Greece was top 5 quality team at last Eurobasket ... but Turkey played even better than them.

I don't care if Greece won Turkey in mutual match (and eventually was placed better thanks to it), that was lucky punch, mainly caused by very tough schedule for Turkey coming into that match and very soft schedule for Greece at same time.

So many years, so many lucky punches...

[Jon_Koncak]

So (or even worse) is the quality of some teams featured in the NBA..

you'd be entitled to say this the day Golden State Warriors loses to Zeleznik youth team(trying to find a fitting analogy here)

[Deschain]

People should really not be able to post anything they'd like to on the forums.
After a partly paradoxal statement, an unrelated comment:

If you take the prep games seriously you may as well think that France is going to be the champions. Pretty close relation.

[Fearless]

you'd be entitled to say this the day Golden State Warriors loses to Zeleznik youth team(trying to find a fitting analogy here)

You're making no sense.. The United States alone have 300 mlns population from all ethnicities and also the best players of other countries play over there because of course NBA has also the best salaries, and yet teams like Golden State, Washington, Minnie would have a tough time beating the Israeli team you're dissing.. which has no payed players and has a pop. of 7 milion, a little more than HALF the population of Pennsylvania (where Villanova university is located.. and recruits the most i think)

[Victorious]

ok, I get it now. Turkey took a lucky punch and collapsed. :rolleyes:
And this is the objective view of a neutral (Croatian?) observer. Very strange.

But I was referring to your other post which I had quoted. And more specifically about the "not understandable" and the "completely understandable" contradiction. Did you change your mind in the middle of your 2 sentences post, or what?

How about a different view. If Greece would not play Spain in the Semi's of 2009 they would have played in the final. Same goes for 2007.

Oh and by the way, I don't care how teams perform in group fase. You have to win the K.O. games.

[CG]

Greece -Bosnia 87-62

[gockun]

After Tanjevic, Oktay Mahmuti or Erman Kunter could come;)

Erman kunter should stay in France he is good there.. i hope we will stay there for like i dont know "60 years more"..

[Adon]

Greece -Bosnia 87-62

It was just a lucky punch :D

[gockun]

Tanjevic back to us please:(

typical fan..

[Duncan]

italia losing to Bosnia?? WTF? Yes, I know Bosnia is a decent team with good players, but Italia should still be winning in Italy against them!

[Jon_Koncak]

You're making no sense.. The United States alone have 300 mlns population from all ethnicities and also the best players of other countries play over there because of course NBA has also the best salaries, and yet teams like Golden State, Washington, Minnie would have a tough time beating the Israeli team you're dissing.. which has no payed players and has a pop. of 7 milion, a little more than HALF the population of Pennsylvania (where Villanova university is located.. and recruits the most i think)

Israel nt just lost to a mediocre college team.What makes you think the same team would give hard time to Minessota or Golden State..they'd propably get thrashed.I used the Villanova-Israel result to question the level of plenty teams participating in eurobasket.You replied that there are equally bad teams in NBA,well you should justify this opinion by bringing an example of an NBA team losing against a clearly inferior competition,good luck with that.

[Franz]

well you should justify this opinion by bringing an example of an NBA team losing against a clearly inferior competition,good luck with that.

What good would that be? You would just find an excuse as to why the NBA team lost to inferior competition.

By the way, I hope Kaman doesn't play for German team. They don't need him.

[Alyosha12]

What are You talking about, in Tanjevic era Turkey played well at 3/4 competitions

2006 WC 6th, out of blue, biggest positive surprise of tournament
2007 EC 11th
2008 not qualified for Olympics
2009 EC 8th, but played great, deserved medal
2010 WC 2nd

People mostly just see that 8th place in Poland 2009 and think they were doing bad. Not so.

September 12 Turkey won Spain (gold medal) 63–60
September 14 Turkey won Serbia (silver medal) 69-64
September 16 Turkey lost to Slovenia (4th place) 67-69
September 17 Turkey lost to Greece (bronze medal) 74-76 overtime

Key was Turkey having nasty schedule, played 4 games in 6 nights against other four of top 5 teams (two wins and two very close losses).
In the meanwhile, Greece played in much easier group, resting players in some games (some went even so far to say Greeks were tanking some games).

September 19 Turkey lost to France in 5th to 8th place game - but Turks lead by something like 20 points in 1st half, then let France win. Yes, Turks let them win game, because Turkey already was qualified for World Championship as host nation and France needed win to qualify for WC.

This:




Oh and by the way, I don't care how teams perform in group fase. You have to win the K.O. games.

Exactly. What a team does in group phase means absolutely nothing. As a Slovenian fan i know that the hard way. Slovenia dominates almost every group phase, but when it comes to the knockout stages we choke. so it does not matter, what Turkey did in 09, 07 05 etc. in group stages, or how "unlucky" they were, because guess what, every team that reaches the 1/4 finals had a great group or else they would not make it to the 1/4finals.

Except the final standings all the would haves, should haves, could haves, ifs and buts mean absolutely zero, and the fact is that except the championships on Turkeys own soil, Turkey hasn't accomplished anything worth mentioning in this decated is the only thing that matters.

So the point i am trying to make is don't just say Turkey always has a bad preparation period and leave out the fact that Turkey also has an average championship as well.

And for all of you who will go mentioning how Slovenia has also done nothing memorable as an answer to my post, please don't bother i know that very well, but if you really must then do so in this thread about Slovenia:
http://forums.interbasket.net/f74/slovenian-nt-2481/

[pimpekaustas]

maybe you should keep up with them a lil more..

team s just tired after the camp in italy. they re not physically ready at all. serbia beat us twice last year in preparation games but you know what happened later. these are just practices, we cannot win all the games.

yes we know! robbery ;)

[JGX]

Belgium beat Baylor 81-69. Apparently Canada is a little behind the times on FIBA rules:


There were a few noticeable differences during Friday's game, mainly dealing with the use of FIBA (International Basketball Federation) playing rules. Instead of rectangular lane like in the NBA and college, the teams used a trapezoid lane. Also the Bears had to adjust to a 24-second shot clock...there were times Friday night that Baylor had to rush some shots because the guys weren't used to playing 24 seconds. The ball was a little different, too.

http://www.baylorbears.com/blog/fullcourtpress.html#canada2

[gockun]

yes we know! robbery ;) we are even now :D

[madmax]

yes we know! robbery ;)

shhhh...how dare you question poor refs for not noticing a sneaky foot on the line at the heat of the WC semifinal. They are human like us, you know?:D

[ArnoldPettybone]

You are aware that one team is a national team that is in the process of trying out things and mixing up the roster in order to find out, which questionable players will play at EBC and which not, tring to avoid injuries, after the team's main star sustained one and the other is a regular team that is playing a whole season together that is taking such a game more seriously because otherwise there would be no reason to travel across the ocean?

I still have games on video at home, where e.g. Team Greece has soundly beaten a college All-Star squad in 1993, featuring Sam Cassell, Isaiah Rider, Lindsey Hunter, Nick van Exel, Michael Curry, Doug Edwards, Corie Blount etc. Team USA has landed a buzzer beater victory over France, courtesy by Isaiah Rider. All of those guys were already drafted and ready to enter the NBA, instantly becoming stars and useful role players. So? That NBA generation was bad or was European basketball that good, as Greece or France, nowhere near successful bball powerhouses by that time managed to hold their own against the US squad?

You can compare the comparable and not just look at the final score. Of course, it's always nice when you team wins rather than when it loses, but things have to be put in perspective. After a tournament, where Israel played good D, it worked at other parts of its game, scoring 92 pts. but also conceding 94 pts. Finally, do you really think that Germany (w/o DN) is stronger than Serbia or Turkey, as it has beaten both, winning the Four Nations tournament?

Imho there is no need to throw the towel, if a European NT loses to a US college team. Heck, the mighty Soviet Union with a young Sabonis has split games in its US tour through colleges.
You can exemplify how much you like, but he is 100% right.
Israel without Casspi and the expansion to 24 teams would barely survive the additional qualifying tournament to spare relegation to div B.

[Victorious]

shhhh...how dare you question poor refs for not noticing a sneaky foot on the line at the heat of the WC semifinal. They are human like us, you know?:D

You are right to support the refs. Your country is the next host.:D

[Silvio]

This:



Exactly. What a team does in group phase means absolutely nothing. As a Slovenian fan i know that the hard way. Slovenia dominates almost every group phase, but when it comes to the knockout stages we choke. so it does not matter, what Turkey did in 09, 07 05 etc. in group stages, or how "unlucky" they were, because guess what, every team that reaches the 1/4 finals had a great group or else they would not make it to the 1/4finals.

Except the final standings all the would haves, should haves, could haves, ifs and buts mean absolutely zero, and the fact is that except the championships on Turkeys own soil, Turkey hasn't accomplished anything worth mentioning in this decated is the only thing that matters.

So the point i am trying to make is don't just say Turkey always has a bad preparation period and leave out the fact that Turkey also has an average championship as well.

And for all of you who will go mentioning how Slovenia has also done nothing memorable as an answer to my post, please don't bother i know that very well, but if you really must then do so in this thread about Slovenia:
http://forums.interbasket.net/f74/slovenian-nt-2481/

Once again, this (Tanjevic / Turkoglu / Ilyasova key figures) Turkey generation in last 5 years: 4 competitions, 3 times played great (once lousy), 2 times good placement. Your starting theses "they did not accomplish anything" is completely wrong. Thus, you can't draw any meaningful conclusion.
Also wrong is: who cares what happened decade ago when Okur, Kutluay (didn't meet shot he didn't like), Mirsad Turkcan and current coach were playing. This is new generation with Hedo and Tunceri only veterans form those old times.


Slovenia is other case, always injury problems, Before preparations or during preparations or in tournament (sometimes in all 3 phases). Always multiple key players not playing. And pretty bad coached, with notable exception of Zdovc. Talent wise it is weird Slovenia has no medals, but knowing troubles they could not avoid (injuries) and those they can blame only themselves for (team chemistry sometimes, other times bad coach choice), when you "put things in perspective" then it is understandable.

If you put things in perspective, then 2 years ago Slovenia and Turkey played best basketball after Spain only, but had unlucky overtime losses to Greece and Serbia, one shot was between both teams and medal. And would Serbia beat Slovenia if Goran Dragic and Smodis were not sitting out game because of injuries? Would Greece won over Turkey had Turks not played 3 top teams in a row before that match?

I really do not care about what happened in knockout stages, I care about overall team performance. Serbia / Greece have medals to show for their lucky QF / SF wins. Well deserved. But why should we add to that saying they overall played better than Slovenia / Turkey ... when they obviously did not .

[pablonis]

Lithuania playing ok thus far. +6 for Spain (48:42) at half time.

http://www.basketnews.lt/paveikslelis-25153-bg2.jpg

[Darknemo2000]

Valanciunas having so so game so far, but I havent expected more from him as its spains frontline he is against. Still he managed to draw 4 fouls means he is active on offensive end enough to make problems for Spain as much as he can. He didnt play that much, but didnt do much defensive mistakes apart when he let Gasol easily score after the spin.

[madmax]

Valanciunas having so so game so far, but I havent expected more from him as its spains frontline he is against. Still he managed to draw 4 fouls means he is active on offensive end enough to make problems for Spain as much as he can. He didnt play that much, but didnt do much defensive mistakes apart when he let Gasol easily score after the spin.

he has barely played, and is getting constantly double teamed whenever he gets a ball...nevertheless he is drawing fouls and rejecting shots on the defensive end too. Our guards simply suck at entry passes (except Sharas) and most of their attempts to play p'n'r and are easily picked off by spanish guards

[Silvio]

Almere tournament, Netherlands

Israel - Georgia 77-72
from eurobasket.com:
David Blu and Elishay Kadir both had 13 points, in addition to 9 points from Yotam Halperin and Guy Pnini to lead Israel's scorers.
Zaza Pachulia led Georgia with 13.

Netherlands - Villanova NCAA 75-63
from www.basketball.nl/content.php/nl/110/nieuws.html?id=2890,nl
Scorers Oranje: Robin Smeulders 18, Rogier Jansen 13, Dan Gadzuric 12, Craig Osaikhwuwuomwam 10,
Kenneth van Kempen 6, Jessey Voorn 5, Arvin Slagter 4, Stefan Wessels 4, Ties Theeuwkens 3.

[Kalashnikov]

If you put things in perspective, then 2 years ago Slovenia and Turkey played best basketball after Spain only, but had unlucky overtime losses to Greece and Serbia, one shot was between both teams and medal. And would Serbia beat Slovenia if Goran Dragic and Smodis were not sitting out game because of injuries? Would Greece won over Turkey had Turks not played 3 top teams in a row before that match?

Any sentence that has above 2 IFs in it is not worth mentioning. Any of the points to mention could might as well affected the result in the opposite direction. E.g. Turkey faced stronger opponents and won, so it had a better momentum to go and demolish Greece. But guess what...it didn't!

And even in case that it did affect the result, well...that's an obvious mistake of the coach who decided that the team should give everything it had early in the tournament and run out of strength when it was needed the most! No luck involved whatsoever.

In this level, there is no lucky win. We are talking about professionals who are paid millions to perform and do nothing else in their lives than to train and prepare for matches.

So, apart from speculating on what would happen in hypothetical situtations, could you please focus on reality for a change?


I really do not care about what happened in knockout stages, I care about overall team performance. Serbia / Greece have medals to show for their lucky QF / SF wins. Well deserved. But why should we add to that saying they overall played better than Slovenia / Turkey ... when they obviously did not .

Yes, it does matter what happens in the KO phase. The americans say: When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. I would recommend on researching why Stockton and Malone never got an NBA title, but I fear that you'd come back saying that they didn't because Jordan was a lucky guy...

[Adon]

If you put things in perspective, then 2 years ago Slovenia and Turkey played best basketball after Spain only, but had unlucky overtime losses to Greece and Serbia, one shot was between both teams and medal. And would Serbia beat Slovenia if Goran Dragic and Smodis were not sitting out game because of injuries? Would Greece won over Turkey had Turks not played 3 top teams in a row before that match?

.

....but Greece won the games against Turkey (1st lucky punch) and against Slovenia (2nd lucky punch?). I'm starting to believe that you are not very objective. Are you sure you are not a Turk?

[Darknemo2000]

Valanciunas still ended up as the best scorer on the team with 12 points though the last two were a total steal from Lukauskis points :D

[madmax]

Once again I didn't like the game against Spain...maybe the score doesn't reflect it, but our guards were useless at distributing the ball and defensively we have a lot of issues when guarding one-on-one. One thing is for sure - the team looks the best when Jonas is on the floor and his shotblocking and rebounding are vital to us. The players who looked the worst were the same usual suspects - Kalnietis, Pocius and Javtokas. If I could use the most appropriate word to describe our game, it would be "disjointed" - no connection between guards and bigs so far. Most of the p'n'r plays are picked off by opponents and we are way too predictably offensively. So far no progress is being made, but at least we started hitting wide open shots...onto the Kaunas game then

[LTbotd]

Boring game overall, the most entertaining thing was at the end - Jonas v Ibaka battle :D

[FIBA Europe Basket]

italia losing to Bosnia?? WTF? Yes, I know Bosnia is a decent team with good players, but Italia should still be winning in Italy against them!

Italy has an awful national team. They have been awful for years. It's basically because Belinelli and Bargnani are horrible, horrible, horrible players.

Both of them are the worst defensive player at their position of any European national team. Both of them are the biggest ball hogs and most selfish players of any players on any European national team.

Bargnani is also the worst rebounding big man in history.

They are both also enormous chuckers and have horrific shot selection.

On top of that, Belinelli is an egomaniac and has a bad attitude. Neither of them knows what a pass is, nor what team play is. They take black hole to another level.

Pianigiani is a very good coach, but he can't get such players in line. The only thing that can save Italy's national team is to get rid of Belinelli and Bargnani.

They are even worse FIBA players than Turkoglu is, and that is almost incomprehensible. If Italy just kicked them off their team, as they should, then they would start winning again.

After they fail again with the new coach, it should not be long until they do kick them both off the team.

[Victorious]

Serbia / Greece have medals to show for their lucky QF / SF wins. Well deserved. But why should we add to that saying they overall played better than Slovenia / Turkey ... when they obviously did not .



Slovenia and Turkey played better than Spain in the group fase, but Spain knew how to handle the KO games and squashed all the teams when it mattered. Unlike Turkey and Slovenia, Spain knows how to build momentum. Winning KO games is a quality and has nothing to do with luck.
If you want to be considered a world class team, then beat teams like Serbia, Argentina, Spain, Greece (with full rosters) in KO games and on a consecutive basis.


I really do not care about what happened in knockout stages, I care about overall team performance.

How does this sound? I don't care about Final Four victories. I don't care about Euroleague titles. I care about overal performance. :D

Sounds like a quote for losers if you ask me.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

well, nah... it's that one IF...

if only Dragič would be healthy. Nothing more nothing less. You can discus 01', 03' or 05' for as long as you want as far as I am concerned, but EC 09' is all about Dragič's injury when it comes to Slovenia's result. It can be considered debatable only by those that haven't yet seen Dragič play with the NT.

[Toxicity]

Italy has an awful national team. They have been awful for years. It's basically because Belinelli and Bargnani are horrible, horrible, horrible players.

Both of them are the worst defensive player at their position of any European national team. Both of them are the biggest ball hogs and most selfish players of any players on any European national team.

Bargnani is also the worst rebounding big man in history.

They are both also enormous chuckers and have horrific shot selection.

On top of that, Belinelli is an egomaniac and has a bad attitude. Neither of them knows what a pass is, nor what team play is. They take black hole to another level.

Pianigiani is a very good coach, but he can't get such players in line. The only thing that can save Italy's national team is to get rid of Belinelli and Bargnani.

They are even worse FIBA players than Turkoglu is, and that is almost incomprehensible. If Italy just kicked them off their team, as they should, then they would start winning again.

After they fail again with the new coach, it should not be long until they do kick them both off the team.

:eek: :D

You have some points but i wouldn't be so negative... i think Belinelli is the only ball hog in this team and Pianigiani can't do much about that. Bargnani is slowly improving since last year... you can't get rid of Belinelli because he's our only talented guard while the new generation (Gentile) may be more egomaniac than Marco! ;)

[Adon]

well, nah... it's that one IF...

if only Dragič would be healthy. Nothing more nothing less. You can discus 01', 03' or 05' for as long as you want as far as I am concerned, but EC 09' is all about Dragič's injury when it comes to Slovenia's result. It can be considered debatable only by those that haven't yet seen Dragič play with the NT.

...if DD was not injured in 2009, if Papaloukas had participated instead of Kalampokis :eek:, ...perhaps Greece could have won the gold. ;) Very funny discussion.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

...if DD was not injured in 2009, if Papaloukas had participated instead of Kalampokis :eek:, ...perhaps Greece could have won the gold. ;) Very funny discussion.
Don't care, about what would happen if perhaps blablabla... Dragič was there for the whole championship, had some superb performances and got injured in the process. Populary claiming (surprisingly overall by Greeks) it was a mental issue of the team and not a matter of Dragič's injury is plain arogance. If we didn't have him in the team from the start, we wouldn't get to the knock out stage in the first place, it doesn't take a genious to calculate Slovenian chances for medals when he gets injured.

[Silvio]

...if DD was not injured in 2009, if Papaloukas had participated instead of Kalampokis :eek:, ...perhaps Greece could have won the gold. ;) Very funny discussion.

Two completely different things.
Dragic played great in first half of the tournament, then got injured.

Papaloukas and Diamantidis were not on roster at all. Your if's were impossible to happen. That is funny.

[goga78]

You can exemplify how much you like, but he is 100% right.
Israel without Casspi and the expansion to 24 teams would barely survive the additional qualifying tournament to spare relegation to div B.

Oh, really? So what has this team been doing without Casspi all the years before?

Besides, he wasn't talking about Casspi but about the Israeli NT.

[OrgoglioSlavo]

Italy has an awful national team. They have been awful for years. It's basically because Belinelli and Bargnani are horrible, horrible, horrible players.

Both of them are the worst defensive player at their position of any European national team. Both of them are the biggest ball hogs and most selfish players of any players on any European national team.

Bargnani is also the worst rebounding big man in history.

They are both also enormous chuckers and have horrific shot selection.

On top of that, Belinelli is an egomaniac and has a bad attitude. Neither of them knows what a pass is, nor what team play is. They take black hole to another level.

Pianigiani is a very good coach, but he can't get such players in line. The only thing that can save Italy's national team is to get rid of Belinelli and Bargnani.

They are even worse FIBA players than Turkoglu is, and that is almost incomprehensible. If Italy just kicked them off their team, as they should, then they would start winning again.

After they fail again with the new coach, it should not be long until they do kick them both off the team.

man shut up, your negastive nonsense on this site about all teams is s annoying, especially for someone from britain, the only country can be described as awful and no history in bball...go play cricket...italy is ranked 7 in fiba world, britain 700,
italy has underacheived recently and lacks players like in past but your poitns are just rude and completely off target.

[Adon]

Don't care, about what would happen if perhaps blablabla... Dragič was there for the whole championship, had some superb performances and got injured in the process. Populary claiming (surprisingly overall by Greeks) it was a mental issue of the team and not a matter of Dragič's injury is plain arogance. If we didn't have him in the team from the start, we wouldn't get to the knock out stage in the first place, it doesn't take a genious to calculate Slovenian chances for medals when he gets injured.

You started your previous post with a big "if" but you "don't care, about what would happen if perhaps blablabla..." :D


Two completely different things.
Dragic played great in first half of the tournament, then got injured.

Papaloukas and Diamantidis were not on roster at all. Your if's were impossible to happen. That is funny.

Ok then,let's use your "logic".
If Spanoulis was not exhausted, Slovenia would have lost by 20.
If Sofo was not super, Slovenia would have won easily, even without Dragic,
....if....if....if.....
Whatever. This "if" discussion means nothing to me.

PS Turkey should have won the silver and Slovenia the bronze, or vice versa ? :rolleyes:

[Joško Poljak Fan]

You started your previous post with a big "if" but you "don't care, about what would happen if perhaps blablabla..." :D



Ok then,let's use your "logic".
If Spanoulis was not exhausted, Slovenia would have lost by 20.
If Sofo was not super, Slovenia would have won easily, even without Dragic,
....if....if....if.....
Whatever. This "if" discussion means nothing to me.

PS Turkey should have won the silver and Slovenia the bronze, or vice versa ? :rolleyes:
Now I really don't know if you're just irritating on purpouse or you really just don't get it?
It's not an IF thing as you'd like to believe in your despicable lack of arguements, as those are facts here. I am not stating Slovenia would win bronze, silver or gold if Dragič wouldn't get injured, the way you are claiming for Greece in your examples, all I am saying is that it's completely arogant claiming not winning those was a matter of mentality when we got Dragič injured on the bench.

Now I don't feel like repeating this over and over again, if you feel like further explanation, read my last three posts all over again as I've got nothing (polite) more to add.

[Adon]

Now I don't feel like repeating this over and over again, if you feel like further explanation, read my last three posts all over again as I've got nothing (polite) more to add.

No, thanks. As I've told you, I don't care anymore about this "if" discussion :)

[Joško Poljak Fan]

No, thanks. As I've told you, I don't care anymore about this "if" discussion :)
It's a matter of arogance claiming a team underperforms in the knock out stages, when they've got one of two by far best players injured during the process.

Now how does that sound, without your beloved "IF theory" for a change? :)

[turk-jugoslav]

I believe we will be better in next 10 days.we played without key players like Tunçeri,Hedo(injured),Ömer Aşık and Semih Erden.we are nothing without defence around the rim and we looked very weak on the defence and we couldn't defend Serbian,Ukrainian and German centers... I am nort very hopeful about our Eurobasket performance... If we go to quarter finals,It will be great for you... But I want to believe we can do some surprises if Erden,Aşık,Tunçeri and Güler come back...
If we talk about Enes Kanter... I am very upset and my thoughts about Kanter completely had changed.He is too slow when drives to inside without ball... he couldn't grab the rebounds but He was rebound monster in the past!!! I don't think he will become a NBA star.He can only become good European center becuz he is too slow and his playing style reminds me 90s centers... at the moment, Centers have similar features to forwards unlike Enes Kanter.comparing Kanter to Valanciunas? No,imposible.Jonas is many times better than Kanter.He is explosive,athletic and tall... If he adds some special post moves to his games,I cannot dream his future... Some Turkish guys never accept that Jonas is better because of their nationalistic emotions but that is the reality... I watch Jonas's videos from against Spain,Czech Republic and Russia.Czech match is not important becuz their team was the third team but Jonas played like a elite European center against Spain and Russia.I admire of his energy.He also made some great post moves during the match up between him and block monster Ibaka...
I think Spain is the favourite team of the tournament... they look very prepaired and they always take the momentum during the match... Maybe Serbia or France can say ''stop'' to them... Lithunia is not very good team at the moment but They will be favourite in the next 5 year with Jonas and Donatas...

[Darihno 5150]

Italy has an awful national team. They have been awful for years. It's basically because Belinelli and Bargnani are horrible, horrible, horrible players.

Both of them are the worst defensive player at their position of any European national team. Both of them are the biggest ball hogs and most selfish players of any players on any European national team.

Bargnani is also the worst rebounding big man in history.

They are both also enormous chuckers and have horrific shot selection.

On top of that, Belinelli is an egomaniac and has a bad attitude. Neither of them knows what a pass is, nor what team play is. They take black hole to another level.

Pianigiani is a very good coach, but he can't get such players in line. The only thing that can save Italy's national team is to get rid of Belinelli and Bargnani.

They are even worse FIBA players than Turkoglu is, and that is almost incomprehensible. If Italy just kicked them off their team, as they should, then they would start winning again.

After they fail again with the new coach, it should not be long until they do kick them both off the team.

I agree that Bargnani is defense & rebounding garbage,but without him & Belineli,Italy would probably be the worst team in Lithuania.

[pablonis]

I think Spain is the favourite team of the tournament... they look very prepaired and they always take the momentum during the match... Maybe Serbia or France can say ''stop'' to them... Lithunia is not very good team at the moment but They will be favourite in the next 5 year with Jonas and Donatas...


Lithuania's alright. They've clearly shown they can play.

Anyway, winning these exhibition games is a thirdly objective at best. One shouldn't really put an equality sign between Lithuania in a preparation mood and Lithuania in front of >10k of it's fans going for the title.

Even the miserable 2009 Lith' team whooped Spanish arses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EikgIiatC1A) badly in a hot arena.

[Jon_Koncak]

Does anyone have the boxscore of Canada-Belgium friendly (79-74) or just the points scored?there are plenty of reports about the game,but not a single one including boxscore or points by each player scored..so frustrating.

[iskoch]

I started to believe that all the succesful European players in NBA are the worst FIBA players for FIBA Basket Europe.
Just who sucked in NBA can be good at FIBA competitions, because the main rule of being good player in FIBA basketball is sucking in NBA.
That's why Spanoulis is the best European player ever, he has sucked the biggest...

[Kwijibo]

Lithuania's alright. They've clearly shown they can play.

Anyway, winning these exhibition games is a thirdly objective at best. One shouldn't really put an equality sign between Lithuania in a preparation mood and Lithuania in front of >10k of it's fans going for the title.

Even the miserable 2009 Lith' team whooped Spanish arses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EikgIiatC1A) badly in a hot arena.

In a friendly match that we didn't care :)

[Straight forward]

Pau's spin move is something that none of current European players can deal with. Not even Pekovič, Bourousis or Mazgov. He's the player to admire and It's always pleasure to watch him as he's the best European center since Sabonis. And with all respect to Mark, he'll never reach that level. While Jonas was a good student in another lesson I think. Not being able to deal with Gasol saying nothing about his abilities, that's status qua in Europe :p His intensity was problematic for Spain's frontline, and he looked good against Ibaka. That means he could already be pretty effective player in NBA against some teams and also Lithuania can expect his contribution even against strongest teams in Eurobasket.

Spain with Pau will be clear favourites in Eurobasket, not a single doubt. That doesn't mean they can't loose important games. If Lithuania could already deal with all the open threes they had (and we know Lithuania can do it), Spain could be in trouble already in this game. Also Russia's tough defence comes as the biggest threat for Pain in my account. Also, Spain would be in trouble if they would not have Navarro. The latter and Pau is something that makes Spain so special.

Lithuania is starting to play basketball and I think we'll be OK.
I want to see more crossovers from Šaras. Leaving Calderons, Rubios or Sadas behind remind the same golden boy of 2003 :p

I saw Slovenia, Russia, Spain, Lithuania, Greece, Serbia, Croatia so far. My first impression - Spain and Russia could be the toughest teams to deal in this Eurobasket.

[Kwijibo]

Pau's spin move is something that none of current European players can deal with. Not even Pekovič, Bourousis or Mazgov. He's the player to admire and It's always pleasure to watch him as he's the best European center since Sabonis. And with all respect to Mark, he'll never reach that level. While Jonas was a good student in another lesson I think. Not being able to deal with Gasol saying nothing about his abilities, that's status qua in Europe :p His intensity was problematic for Spain's frontline, and he looked good against Ibaka. That means he could already be pretty effective player in NBA against some teams and also Lithuania can expect his contribution even against strongest teams in Eurobasket.

Spain with Pau will be clear favourites in Eurobasket, not a single doubt. That doesn't mean they can't loose important games. If Lithuania could already deal with all the open threes they had (and we know Lithuania can do it), Spain could be in trouble already in this game. Also Russia's tough defence comes as the biggest threat for Pain in my account. Also, Spain would be in trouble if they would not have Navarro. The latter and Pau is something that makes Spain so special.

Lithuania is starting to play basketball and I think we'll be OK.
I want to see more crossovers from Šaras. Leaving Calderons, Rubios or Sadas behind remind the same golden boy of 2003 :p

I saw Slovenia, Russia, Spain, Lithuania, Greece, Serbia, Croatia so far. My first impression - Spain and Russia could be the toughest teams to deal in this Eurobasket.
Actually he is the ebst European center of all times :)

[sagenas]

Actually he is the ebst European center of all times :)

No insults please
JPF

[vaslover]

Actually he is the ebst European center of all times :)

Yes, and Ibaka is the best African player in Spanish NT...:) ;)

[madmax]

Actually he is the ebst European center of all times :)

you are a funny dude Kwijibo:D
Don't get me wrong, I like Pau, but he's a softie compared to peak Sabas and his presence on the court...is the best spanish center ever title not good enough for you?

[Kwijibo]

...

I can understand that Sabonis is for Lithania the same that Maradona is for Argentina but Pau Gasol in my opinion is better than him due to his NBA tittles.
Stats in NBA:
Sabonis: 12 points, 7'3 rebs, 2'1 assist, 1 block 0 rings
Pau: 18'8 points, 9'1 rebs, 3'2 assist, 1'7 nlocks 2 rings

Those are facts

[turk-jugoslav]

Sabonis is the best center of all times from Europe... Pau Gasol is the second biggest I think... Pau's performance is always better in European and World Championships:) but I don't know the players who are coming from youth teams in Spain.I think they are generally from Senegal.I wonder How many Senegalis will take place in Spain national team :) Our team will be half Balkan,Spain team will be half Senagali :D

[the_black_planet]

Kwijibo you must be really young bro...Even Pau himself would disagree badly with your statement;)

[sagenas]

He is looking at stats only :D I don't know what to say for such a *bad word*.



JPF, if I can't insult others then can I just simply trash and troll others like some stupids do over here? I don't like conflicts or any things like that but when someone is sick with narcissism, I can't stand that. P.s. what I'm writing further is no insult, it's really honest it is the truth. Fact.

You know, Kwijibo, I can recommend you a very good doctor and it's no shame to be sick, many people gets sick, f.e. I get cold every winter :D you need help of specialists ASAP.

EDIT: congratulations to me for my 1000th post here. Cheers :cool:

[Z.A.L.I.A.]

I can understand that Sabonis is for Lithania the same that Maradona is for Argentina but Pau Gasol in my opinion is better than him due to his NBA tittles.
Stats in NBA:
Sabonis: 12 points, 7'3 rebs, 2'1 assist, 1 block 0 rings
Pau: 18'8 points, 9'1 rebs, 3'2 assist, 1'7 nlocks 2 rings

Those are facts

You do realize that Sabonis entered NBA when he was 31 (because of political reasons he could not do that earlier)

[Kwijibo]

He is looking at stats only :D I don't know what to say for such a *bad word*.



JPF, if I can't insult others then can I just simply trash and troll others like some stupids do over here? I don't like conflicts or any things like that but when someone is sick with narcissism, I can't stand that. P.s. what I'm writing further is no insult, it's really honest it is the truth. Fact.

You know, Kwijibo, I can recommend you a very good doctor and it's no shame to be sick, many people gets sick, f.e. I get cold every winter :D you need help of specialists ASAP.

EDIT: congratulations to me for my 1000th post here. Cheers :cool:

You reach it thx to me

[Italian Pride]

Actually he is the ebst European center of all times :)

gasol center?:rolleyes:

gasol IMHO is a power forward and actually nowitzky is the best power forward in europe and not only...;)

[Kwijibo]

You do realize that Sabonis entered NBA when he was 31 (because of political reasons he could not do that earlier)

And do you realize that pau with 30-31 years (last season) has done 18'8 points 10'2 rebs 3'3 assist and 1'7 rebs while Sabonis did at same age 14'5, 8'1, 1'8, 1'1

[Kwijibo]

Kwijibo you must be really young bro...Even Pau himself would disagree badly with your statement;)

Yes i'm young but i have seen some games of Sabonis in Portland and he is not better than Pau in Lakers

[Kwijibo]

gasol center?:rolleyes:

gasol IMHO is a power forward and actually nowitzky is the best power forward in europe and not only...;)

Yes gasol is the center of our national team

[Genjuro]

I don't think saying that Gasol is better than Sabonis is any big deal. Just as stating the opposite. I don't think it's such a clear-cut call. It's just debatable IMO. Anyway it's hard to compare them because of Sabonis' strange career (getting to the NBA so late, going to Valladolid... after all he only earns one Euroleague title after so many years of dominance in Europe).

Take also into account that Gasol has been considered a world top-15 player at some point of his career with his displayings at both the NBA and FIBA tournaments, and it's not so easy to figure out if Sabonis ever was at that stage world-wise.

[Italian Pride]

And do you realize that pau with 30-31 years (last season) has done 18'8 points 10'2 rebs 3'3 assist and 1'7 rebs while Sabonis did at same age 14'5, 8'1, 1'8, 1'1

statistics are not everything when Sabonis played in the NBA Europeans had not yet seen as well-hours,for example diamntidis didn't play in nba then by your reasoning calderon is better than dimantidis?

[hustlerlt]

I can understand that Sabonis is for Lithania the same that Maradona is for Argentina but Pau Gasol in my opinion is better than him due to his NBA tittles.
Stats in NBA:
Sabonis: 12 points, 7'3 rebs, 2'1 assist, 1 block 0 rings
Pau: 18'8 points, 9'1 rebs, 3'2 assist, 1'7 nlocks 2 rings

Those are facts
You do realize that Sabonis went to the NBA at 31 years old with legs,that barely could walk?Before he went to the NBA he could do absolutely everything you would want from a player and when he came back Zalgiris to end his career at the age of 39 he still was Euroleagues MVP while scoring 16.7 PPG,grabbing 10.7 RPG,blocking 1.6 shots per game and also dishing out 2.4 assists per game.Pau is a great player,one of the best,but I really doubt that he could still put up these kinds of numbers when he's 39 in the Euroleague.

[Italian Pride]

Yes gasol is the center of our national team

marc gasol is your center not pau...;)

[Genjuro]

gasol center?:rolleyes:

gasol IMHO is a power forward and actually nowitzky is the best power forward in europe and not only...;)
Center, why not? He has played center for the NT since... 2003? And he has played a lot of center in the NBA (so much playing time next to Lamar Odom at the Lakers, for example). Of course he has played PF as well.

Nowitzki is the best European player ever. Period.

[Italian Pride]

Center, why not? He has played center for the NT since... 2003? And he has played a lot of center in the NBA (so much playing time next to Lamar Odom at the Lakers, for example). Of course he has played PF as well.

Nowitzki is the best European player ever. Period.

IMO he's more power forward than centre...:p


dirk better than petrovic,sabonis and co?i 'm so young, i don't remember petrovic and only a little sabonis...:D

[sagenas]

And do you realize that pau with 30-31 years (last season) has done 18'8 points 10'2 rebs 3'3 assist and 1'7 rebs while Sabonis did at same age 14'5, 8'1, 1'8, 1'1

Do you realize that it was absolutely different times? When Sabonis played in NBA...everything was different.. Even skill-set of Sabonis was terrific...what Sabonis couldn't have done on the court? Stats say nothing.

Even Sabonis being old and playing in Žalgiris was the most productive player in Euroleague when other players at the same age can barely run or jump.

These times only one of million of players are that special. I'm not speaking about Dirk who would be on the same line with Sabonis but Pau has nothing special about basketball - he's just very good basketball player with very well polished skills, right now more and more players from Europe and other continents succeed in the NBA and international level. Last year Scola dominated WC, is he better player than Sabonis?

[Genjuro]

These times only one of million of players are that special. I'm not speaking about Dirk who would be on the same line with Sabonis but Pau has nothing special about basketball - he's just very good basketball player with very well polished skills, right now more and more players from Europe and other continents succeed in the NBA and international level. Last year Scola dominated WC, is he better player than Sabonis?
You are dilusional if you think Sabonis is on the same line with Nowitzki. Nowitzki is guy with a superb career, and extremely consistent. He's a NBA MVP that has won the NBA title as the absolute go-to guy of his team. That means he has been in contention to be considered the world best player at some point of his career, which is something Sabonis could never dream of (I'm sorry, but beating David Robinson in one game when he was a college player doesn't qualify), besides being a world top-10 player for an entire decade.

Sabonis has a tremendous historical significance (clearly more than Gasol, for example). He's currently Europe's top myth alongside Petrovic. And I know he's incredibly special for you and your countrymen, but you shouldn't confuse your feelings with the reality.

[madmax]

There's no question who the best euro player of all time is - and he is that german dude Nowitzki...his scoring brilliance and ability to hit any shot at any time is out of reach for any european player. Add to the fact that he is also 7 feet and is shooting out of balance clutch jumpers off one leg, he is unguardable to any defense out there. As for centers, Sabonis is still a benchmark to any past or present guys, since no one has his combination of size, skill and domination at this position. And Pau is just as much center as he is a PF, he also lacks physical presence of some other great centers and therefore is disqualified in any "greatest" discussion

[Genjuro]

And Pau is just as much center as he is a PF, he also lacks physical presence of some other great centers and therefore is disqualified in any "greatest" discussion
Of course. And Jabbar is disqualified too. I think it's between Sabonis and Mark Eaton.

[ArnoldPettybone]

Oh, really? So what has this team been doing without Casspi all the years before?

THIS team failed in the last eurobasket. THOSE years were with other rosters that included some inside presence to be considered and isn't here anymore, that has no replacements. Add to thata great presence by a leading PG that still isn't filled by non of our "leading" PG's-all three of them. Also you tend to forget (or perhaps ignore?) the fact that other last years Div B teams have progressed to Div A and are now equal, if not better then us. Also as a whole most European Div A teams have taken a step forward (maybe besides Italy), some giant steps, and we basically stayed at the same position, possibly a step back.
Thank god traditionally we have the lowest rate of absentees from the entire available players pool comparing to other similar level NT. Contemplate for a minute what could have happened if Latvia had biedrins, Kambala and the other guards instead of the B team they put up against us. That Italy had Gallinari. The same with Finland and Mottola, Koponen.
At the same time No new suitable level players (other then Casspi) have surfaced to fill the ranks of the missing Centers and forwards that retired and are not here anymore. Who ever thought this team can become more guard oriented that it already was the last years, purely laughable.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

I'd still go with Sabonis, not because of his career with Portland, but because of those dream performances with Real you should definatley watch, Kwijibo, evenhough I realise it's not exactly your favourite team. ;)

That saying, eventhough such things are mostly based on individual opinion, Genjuro still has some very valid points here. Comparison between Sabonis and Gasol are not some clear-cut ones noone should discuss about and Nowitzki should eventually be considered as the no.1 european player of all times. It'll be easier to actually discuss this when Gasol and Nowitzki both end their careers and we'll be looking at it from the distance, the way we're seeing Sabonis's career now. Eventhough Sabonis's historical significance was tremendous, within some time we might realise Pau and Dirk weren't that much behind him regarding that aspect neither.

[Remon]

So, are we close at figuring out who has it bigger?

[Italian Pride]

THIS team failed in the last eurobasket. THOSE years were with other rosters that included some inside presence to be considered and isn't here anymore, that has no replacements. Add to thata great presence by a leading PG that still isn't filled by non of our "leading" PG's-all three of them. Also you tend to forget (or perhaps ignore?) the fact that other last years Div B teams have progressed to Div A and are now equal, if not better then us. Also as a whole most European Div A teams have taken a step forward (maybe besides Italy), some giant steps, and we basically stayed at the same position, possibly a step back.
Thank god traditionally we have the lowest rate of absentees from the entire available players pool comparing to other similar level NT. Contemplate for a minute what could have happened if Latvia had biedrins, Kambala and the other guards instead of the B team they put up against us. That Italy had Gallinari. The same with Finland and Mottola, Koponen.
At the same time No new suitable level players (other then Casspi) have surfaced to fill the ranks of the missing Centers and forwards that retired and are not here anymore. Who ever thought this team can become more guard oriented that it already was the last years, purely laughable.
we also have absences, perhaps not decisive as last year when missed gallo,but if you think that we have only two big man and mancio that is a tweener,at this point the absence of gigli and crosariol are not as irrelevant and also the absence of giachetti like pg,that in alst year was one of the best plater in our NT and surely better than maestranzi...;)

so i think you have homever good team,also without casspi,but at the same time i think that italy is better than israel even if there were Casspi...;)

[Kwijibo]

I'd still go with Sabonis, not because of his career with Portland, but because of those dream performances with Real you should definatley watch, Kwijibo, evenhough I realise it's not exactly your favourite team. ;)

That saying, eventhough such things are mostly based on individual opinion, Genjuro still has some very valid points here. Comparison between Sabonis and Gasol are not some clear-cut ones noone should discuss about and Nowitzki should eventually be considered as the no.1 european player of all times. It'll be easier to actually discuss this when Gasol and Nowitzki both end their careers and we'll be looking at it from the distance, the way we're seeing Sabonis's career now. Eventhough Sabonis's historical significance was tremendous, within some time we might realise Pau and Dirk weren't that much behind him regarding that aspect neither.
I saw some boxcore of him in ACB.com and he ahs games against barça of 60 valoration and the acb record with 66, but for example he played 6 years in ACB and he won only 3 domestic titles. Copa del rey and league in 92/93
and the league the next year. Pau gasol in only 3 season has got the same tittles in Spain 2 leagues and 1 Copa del rey. And barça of the season 2000/2001 has been the most dominant team in ACB ever

[sagenas]

You are dilusional if you think Sabonis is on the same line with Nowitzki. Nowitzki is guy with a superb career, and extremely consistent. He's a NBA MVP that has won the NBA title as the absolute go-to guy of his team. That means he has been in contention to be considered the world best player at some point of his career, which is something Sabonis could never dream of (I'm sorry, but beating David Robinson in one game when he was a college player doesn't qualify), besides being a world top-10 player for an entire decade.

Sabonis has a tremendous historical significance (clearly more than Gasol, for example). He's currently Europe's top myth alongside Petrovic. And I know he's incredibly special for you and your countrymen, but you shouldn't confuse your feelings with the reality.

Yeah yeah, sure.


Kwijibo, what does that mean? If your teammates are retards, you can't win even a single game being the best player. Mavs couldn't have won without f.e. Marion who played tough D and that was one of the main keys to success.

[Xristos]

Yeah yeah, sure.


Kwijibo, what does that mean? If your teammates are retards, you can't win even a single game being the best player. Mavs couldn't have won without f.e. Marion who played tough D and that was one of the main keys to success.

So you think Sabonis is on the same level as Nowitzki? :rolleyes:


To say Pau is the same level as Sabonis is not ridiculous at all. What thing in particular makes Sabonis on such a great level over Pau Gasol, who himself is a legend.

[Adon]

It's a matter of arogance claiming a team underperforms in the knock out stages, when they've got one of two by far best players injured during the process.

Now how does that sound, without your beloved "IF theory" for a change? :)

I agree. I've never claimed that Slovenia underperformed. And I didn't mention anything about the mentality of your team.
My only argument was that the discussion "what would have happened if...." is pointless. Nothing more, nothing less.

[sagenas]

So you think Sabonis is on the same level as Nowitzki? :rolleyes:


To say Pau is the same level as Sabonis is not ridiculous at all. What thing in particular makes Sabonis on such a great level over Pau Gasol, who himself is a legend.

No, I don't think so, because Sabonis is retired and didn't play profesional basketball for years right now :rolleyes:

[Xristos]

No, I don't think so, because Sabonis is retired and didn't play profesional basketball for years right now :rolleyes:


That does not make sense. What is your argument to put Sabas on the same level as Nowitzki and so clearly better than Pau? :rolleyes:

[pablonis]

This discussion... :D

It's as if someone would try to convince me that some fagotty group like "30 seconds to mars" or "Linkin park" are better than "Rolling Stones", just because one can see their fancy, flashy videos every other day and they sold their albums better in recent years. :rolleyes:

[sagenas]

That does not make sense. What is your argument to put Sabas on the same level as Nowitzki and so clearly better than Pau? :rolleyes:

Three words - skills and importance. As Kurtinaitis always says something like this: "These time you just need to wish and work, everything is in your hands but in our times there were more circumstainces<...>".

[vaslover]

Latvia - Russia 59:84
Lat: Blums (16)
Rus: Shabalkin (18+7reb), Fridzon(15), Kirilenko (12), Khryapa(10), Vorontsevich (7), Monya, khvostov (6), Ponkrashov(5), Bykov(3), Shved(2), Voronov,Vyaltsev(0)
Timoha Mozgov took a rest yesterday.:cool:

[Xristos]

Latvia - Russia 59:84
Lat: Blums (16)
Rus: Shabalkin (18+7reb), Fridzon(15), Kirilenko (12), Khryapa(10), Vorontsevich (7), Monya, khvostov (6), Ponkrashov(5), Bykov(3), Shved(2), Voronov,Vyaltsev(0)
Timoha Mozgov took a rest yesterday.:cool:

Who will replace Zhukanenko and Kaun? Shabalkin and Antonov? :confused:

[hustlerlt]

Latvia - Russia 59:84
Lat: Blums (16)
Rus: Shabalkin (18+7reb), Fridzon(15), Kirilenko (12), Khryapa(10), Vorontsevich (7), Monya, khvostov (6), Ponkrashov(5), Bykov(3), Shved(2), Voronov,Vyaltsev(0)
Timoha Mozgov took a rest yesterday.:cool:
Latvia so far looks terrible.They lost to Lithuania's student team,in which the best players weren't allowed to play,and they're getting crushed by everyone else in the friendly matches.It looks like they're going to be defeated really easily by everyone in group B.

[Straight forward]

Interesting thing that Sagenas and Kwijibo are two very young fellas ready to clear things out about Sabonis here :p

[Genjuro]

This discussion... :D

It's as if someone would try to convince me that some fagotty group like "30 seconds to mars" or "Linkin park" are better than "Rolling Stones", just because one can see their fancy, flashy videos every other day and they sold their albums better in recent years. :rolleyes:
Great reasoning. You have convinced me: Belov was better than Sabonis.

[Fearless]

Israel nt just lost to a mediocre college team.What makes you think the same team would give hard time to Minessota or Golden State..they'd propably get thrashed.I used the Villanova-Israel result to question the level of plenty teams participating in eurobasket.You replied that there are equally bad teams in NBA,well you should justify this opinion by bringing an example of an NBA team losing against a clearly inferior competition,good luck with that.

i already showed that villanova is not mediocre but indeed top 25 level in the us, and i can't give you those examples because those matches will never be played.. but I watch NBA and FIBA both a lot, and I stand by my opinion on those teams.

[Fearless]

Yeah yeah, sure.


Kwijibo, what does that mean? If your teammates are retards, you can't win even a single game being the best player. Mavs couldn't have won without f.e. Marion who played tough D and that was one of the main keys to success.

yeah and sabas had a lot of talent around him everywhere he played, on the contrary Nowitzki took bronze in WC and silver in EC with mighty germany, and won the NBA title as the only all star in his team (first time it happens since olajuwon in 1995)

[baelor]

There's no question who the best euro player of all time is - and he is that german dude Nowitzki...his scoring brilliance and ability to hit any shot at any time is out of reach for any european player. Add to the fact that he is also 7 feet and is shooting out of balance clutch jumpers off one leg, he is unguardable to any defense out there. As for centers, Sabonis is still a benchmark to any past or present guys, since no one has his combination of size, skill and domination at this position. And Pau is just as much center as he is a PF, he also lacks physical presence of some other great centers and therefore is disqualified in any "greatest" discussion

100% agree!

For the first time, I guess :)

[sagenas]

Interesting thing that Sagenas and Kwijibo are two very young fellas ready to clear things out about Sabonis here :p

Yeah but I let myself to point out this because I feel myself having not bad basketball insight. And if someone puts up the age then I should say to be silent when those people will get old because it's the same as to be kid, then no one listen their opinion because they are "too old". Absolutely same as these times some people doesn't agree with me only because "I'm kid".

[KWSN-Men]

I started to believe that all the succesful European players in NBA are the worst FIBA players for FIBA Basket Europe.
Just who sucked in NBA can be good at FIBA competitions, because the main rule of being good player in FIBA basketball is sucking in NBA.
That's why Spanoulis is the best European player ever, he has sucked the biggest...

Yeap, got it!

[Point_Guard]

. As for centers, Sabonis is still a benchmark to any past or present guys, since no one has his combination of size, skill and domination at this position. And Pau is just as much center as he is a PF, he also lacks physical presence of some other great centers and therefore is disqualified in any "greatest" discussion

Sorry but this is hilarious. Did you see 2009 NBA finals? Pau Gasol dominated Dwight Howard,who is stronger than Pau. Your claim shows that your understanding of basketball is very poor. You dont need great physical presence to be a great basketball player. You dont need great physical presence to dominate the game if you have skill and intelligence like Pau has.

In FIBA´s tournaments Pau had dominated every tournament he had played in. He is in Sabonis league, no doubt.

[Kwijibo]

Sorry but this is hilarious. Did you see 2009 NBA finals? Pau Gasol dominated Dwight Howard,who is stronger than Pau. Your claim shows that your understanding of basketball is very poor. You dont need great physical presence to be a great basketball player. You dont need great physical presence to dominate the game if you have skill and intelligence like Pau has.

In FIBA´s tournaments Pau had dominated every tournament he had played in. He is in Sabonis league, no doubt.

I couldn't say it better

[sagenas]

Sorry but this is hilarious. Did you see 2009 NBA finals? Pau Gasol dominated Dwight Howard,who is stronger than Pau. Your claim shows that your understanding of basketball is very poor. You dont need great physical presence to be a great basketball player. You dont need great physical presence to dominate the game if you have skill and intelligence like Pau has.

In FIBA´s tournaments Pau had dominated every tournament he had played in. He is in Sabonis league, no doubt.

And I wouldn't call Sabonis as very athletic players, too.

[madmax]

Sorry but this is hilarious. Did you see 2009 NBA finals? Pau Gasol dominated Dwight Howard,who is stronger than Pau. Your claim shows that your understanding of basketball is very poor. You dont need great physical presence to be a great basketball player. You dont need great physical presence to dominate the game if you have skill and intelligence like Pau has.

In FIBA´s tournaments Pau had dominated every tournament he had played in. He is in Sabonis league, no doubt.

"Dominated" Dwight Howard?
I guess I must have seen a different series then, because Dwight was struggling mostly against bigger Bynum and his lenght and Pau wasn't even guarding him...did you really watch the same games that everyone else did?:D It sure doesn't seem like it

[rikhardur]

Guys let's stick to the subject of the thread...
There are threads about the best European players ever, go there.

[Point_Guard]

"Dominated" Dwight Howard?
I guess I must have seen a different series then, because Dwight was struggling mostly against bigger Bynum and his lenght and Pau wasn't even guarding him...did you really watch the same games that everyone else did?:D It sure doesn't seem like it


Dont make me laugh. Bynum averaged less than 20 minutes per game in the finals. http://www.nba.com/lakers/stats/2008/nba_finals_stats.html

The rest of the time Pau guarded Howard.

[iskoch]

I'm not speaking about Dirk who would be on the same line with Sabonis?

Sorry but there is no difference between what Kwijibo and you say.
He says Gasol is better than Sabonis, you say Nowitzki is on the same line with Sabonis.
Both sound same stupid...

[baelor]

Guys! please stop it! can we discuss upcoming championship please?:cool:

[Prince de Belial]

Guys! please stop it! can we discuss upcoming championship please?:cool:

at last some reasonable voice !

[pimpekaustas]

best european center ever is krešo ćosić ;)

[sagenas]

Sorry but there is no difference between what Kwijibo and you say.
He says Gasol is better than Sabonis, you say Nowitzki is on the same line with Sabonis.
Both sound same stupid...

I didn't ask you so no need to answer. :)

[pimpekaustas]

neither gasol, neither sabonis were so dominant and above all players of their generation as ćosić was in his time :cool:

[madmax]

Dont make me laugh. Bynum averaged less than 20 minutes per game in the finals. http://www.nba.com/lakers/stats/2008/nba_finals_stats.html

The rest of the time Pau guarded Howard.

OK...this is going off topic now, but these are the stats of both players in the finals:
Gasol - 19 pts and 9 rebounds
Howard - 15 pts and 15 rebounds

As you can see, Dwight was owning the boards and only struggled to shoot thanks to the lenght of Lakers frontline. I don't see any domination here, but you can imagine whatever you like my dear friend:cool: Peace

[Kwijibo]

Sorry but there is no difference between what Kwijibo and you say.
He says Gasol is better than Sabonis, you say Nowitzki is on the same line with Sabonis.
Both sound same stupid...

Why is stupid to say that Gasol is better than sabonis?

[baelor]

at last some reasonable voice !

As you see - noone needs a reasonable voice:D

[sagenas]

Why is stupid to say that Gasol is better than sabonis?

Oh my...show at least some respect - the name of Sabonis you write in lower case while Gasol you write in capital ones.

[iskoch]

Why is stupid to say that Gasol is better than sabonis?


I didn't ask you so no need to answer. :)

LOL. :D

Ok ok, I leave you alone. :D

[Kwijibo]

Oh my...show at least some respect - the name of Sabonis you write in lower case while Gasol you write in capital ones.

Lol it's only 1 capital... Or it's a casus belli to not write Sabonis instead of sabonis in luthuania? :p

[baelor]

Oh my...show at least some respect - the name of Sabonis you write in lower case while Gasol you write in capital ones.

don't think he meant to be disrespectful, just a misspelling.

On the other hand both of you are disrespectful.. discuss this Sabonis VS Gasol theme on the other thread. Please

Or I'll kick your ass:D

[Kwijibo]

LOL. :D

Ok ok, I leave you alone. :D

Instead of say that is stupid u can give some arguments in favor of sabones that defends that he is better than gasol...

[baelor]

Instead of say that is stupid u can give some arguments in favor of sabones that defends that he is better than gasol...

get a life...

Sabonis will never meet Gasol in the field so why waste time? For me - Sabonis is best ever (cause i'm lithuanian), for you it's - Gasol (cause you're spanish). So? Just get over it. We will never convince you otherwise and neither will you ...:cool:

[the_black_planet]

Oh my...show at least some respect - the name of Sabonis you write in lower case while Gasol you write in capital ones.

Maybe because Sabas played for...Real???:cool:

[baelor]

Maybe because Sabas played for...Real???:cool:

Funny thing - Kwijibo lives south of Madrid:D How cool is that?

[iskoch]

Instead of say that is stupid u can give some arguments in favor of sabones that defends that he is better than gasol...

Sorry, I don't want to be a part of your discussion. :)
Again sorry if I told something disrespectful, for me no difference between what you say.
I think both of you are far from being objective because of nationalism.
If it is your objective comments, then I respect your mind, because noone can prove who is the best.
But as I think nationalism has a big role in your comments,
No difference between you and sagenas for me...

P.S
Hala Madrid tonight and always. :)

[Kwijibo]

get a life...

Sabonis will never meet Gasol in the field so why waste time? For me - Sabonis is best ever (cause i'm lithuanian), for you it's - Gasol (cause you're spanish). So? Just get over it. We will never convince you otherwise and neither will you ...:cool:

Yes i agree 100% but i think that if some1 says that Sabonis is better or Pau is better no1 can say that is a tupid thing what he said

[Kwijibo]

Funny thing - Kwijibo lives south of Madrid:D How cool is that?

And because i live in south Madrid i have to be part of a prepotent, pimp, arrogant, extravagant team? I prefer Barcelona, the team of Valors, Mes que un club

[baelor]

And because i live in south Madrid i have to be part of a prepotent, pimp, arrogant, extravagant team? I prefer Barcelona, the team of Valors, Mes que un club

I think Real fans would say the same thing.:D

I'm not spanish so I don't know the details of your rivalry.... but I have always been a 'fan' of Real football team, because they seemed to be less arrogant than Barca.
And I will be a fan of basketball team also just because my beloved Pocius will play there :) ..

But again - I don't know the details...

[Point_Guard]

OK...this is going off topic now, but these are the stats of both players in the finals:
Gasol - 19 pts and 9 rebounds
Howard - 15 pts and 15 rebounds

As you can see, Dwight was owning the boards and only struggled to shoot thanks to the lenght of Lakers frontline. I don't see any domination here, but you can imagine whatever you like my dear friend:cool: Peace

Pau dominated Howard in that series. And that goes beyond stats. Pau did not suffer in front of Howard, and was able to reimain his usual level of play and scored consistently against Howard, while Howard had a lot of problems with Pau´s defense. his production decreased and his impact in the game was clearly limited by Pau´s presence. Everbody watched that., it was not Bynum, it was Pau who made Howard struggled.

Pau is underrated and i cant understand why. He is the most accomplished european player of all time, having won almost everything and always being the most important player or the second most important player in all this tittles. Yes, probably Kukoc won more, but in his NBA championships was a third or fourth option, while Pau was clearly the second best player of his team. But we have to read crap, like he is soft, or he lacks physical presence... man this is basketball not boxing, you dont need to be the estrongest guy out there to be a legendary player if you have skill, talent and inteligence. Pau is a prefect example of this.

To me is clear that Pau deserves to be included in the top 3 of european players of all time, along with Sabonis and Dirk. To me, the best is Dirk and Sabas and Pau are at the same level. The rest are clearly below of this three.

[madmax]

Pau dominated Howard in that series. And that goes beyond stats. Pau did not suffer in front of Howard, and was able to reimain his habitual level of play and scored consistently against Howard, while Howard had a lot of problems with Pau´s defense. his production decreased and his impact in the game was clearly limited by Pau´s presence. Everbody watched that., it was not Bynum, it was Pau who made Howard struggled.

Pau is underrated and i cant understand why. He is the most accomplished european player of all time, having won almost everything and always being the most important player or the second most important player in all this tittles. Yes, probably Kukoc won more, but in his NBA championships was a third or fourth option, while Pau was clearly the second best player of his team. But we have to read crap, like he is soft, or he lacks physical presence... man this is basketball not boxing, you dont need to be the estrongest guy out there to be a legendary player if you have skill, talent and inteligence. Pau is a prefect example of this.

To me is clear that Pau deserves to be included in the top 3 of european players of all time, along with Sabonis and Dirk. To me, the best is Dirk and Sabas and Pau are at the same level. The rest are clearly below of this three.

you are getting a bit worked up now in this Pau vs Dwight discussion.
The thing about that Lakers team was that they were able to throw in 3 very tall players at the same time - Pau, Bynum and Odom. That was the reason why Dwight was struggling to shoot over the hands of these guys and got visibly frustrated as series went on. Don't get me wrong - I like Pau and his skilled game. He was the key player in both Lakers chips recently, not that chucking hero Kobe. But he is not better than Dwight on both sides of the floor and there is a reason for it - he lacks strenght and physical presence on the court.

[rikhardur]

OK, further OT posts will get deleted, so don't bother writing them.

[Remon]

That refereeing in Rimini is almost as bad as in Acropolis.

And kudos to Bargnani, didn't know he's such a good diver.

Also, I really can't watch Zisis leading the offence.