Ignore Maccabi what other teams and players may have interesting seasons.

[Calvin]

The PL was a curiosity because you had four other teams Galil, Hapoel, Ironi and Bnei that weren't only competative but actually beaten Maccabi. There were several young players that had strong performances last year that are more experienced along with several interesting rookies. What teams and players do you think have potential.

[goga78]

You've got to read the news more properly. Ironi Nahariya has never beaten MTA this season. Maccabi had two one-point losses more or less at the buzzer on the road, which is actually not that bad, since Maccabi didn't go without losses throughout a season even with Parker, Saras, Solomon etc. on their roster, having lost heavily to Hapoel Jerusalem and Hapoel Tel-Aviv, for example. It also lost one game in the Cup.

The PL is degressing from year to year, after having had its best season in 2003-2004, when MTA won the Euroleague, Hapoel Jerusalem won the ULEB Cup, HTA finished third in Fiba Euroleague, which was a strong league by then with several really good teams. If it wouldn't be for a total blackout in the second half of the semifinal, HTA would have had a good chance to take the cup. Also, Ironi Nahariya has ended its season of step before the Final Four. Israel has had four good representatives in Europe since then and a strong, a legendary MTA team used to be beaten by their opponents in the league in a great fashion.
Right now, other teams were able to compete with MTA sometimes, because of a complete roster overhaul of MTA, which played without a real PG. Only Jerusalem has retained its strength of the previous years and might have gotten even stronger since then, albeit it didn't win the ULEB Cup this season. Otherwise, the league is not getting better. There are not more Israelis than before in key or important roles in their teams, although good Israeli players are now getting more playing time in better teams. Never before has Maccabi Tel-Aviv yielded as many Israelis on court and not on roster since European teams have started to sign more than two foreigners. Although we can see some solid young players, the league is still being dominated by foreign players, mostly Americans. The National Team can't get their act together and loses to clearly worse teams. Israeli players, who used to play quite good three-four years ago, have regressed in their game. Sasson used to be better but he lacks work ethic and can't succeed in big teams. Green cannot develop his offensive game and come off the bench. Yet I believe, he can still be a solid, productive player in lesser teams, while taking a starting role. He simply can't come off the bench. Halperin has had more chances this season than throughout his whole career in Israel but had just 3-4 really good games, Euroleague and Premier League combined. The rest was crap. To have minimal ratings in 25 minutes on court without losing the ball too much, while playing the point and thus dominating the ball, is just a sign of lack of effort. You always have somethign to do. But Halperin is just too timid. Yet, he could surely succeed in any other team not named Maccabi, a team, where his mistakes would not be judged so harshly by fans. I think, he could be quite a useful player in any mid-level Euroleague team. But not Maccabi.
MTA is supposed to have theb est Israeli players on their roster that's why all the talking about them. Some other Israeli players, like Tapiro, Hagag, Markovitz, Kozikaro, Limonad, Ohayon, Casspi etc. have been solid or even becam better (the youngero nes) but they are still no top players. Eliyahu gained important experience but didn't improve much. He still has no mid-range shot we could talk about, he still doesn't dribble the ball well enough to cope with a bad shot while still being a good one-on-one player (like Chris Williams, formerly Frankfurt Skyliners). He also have to gain strength. Otherwise, he is young, big, athletic and can play aggressive at times, if he puts his head into it. As to the foreign born Israeli players, Derrick Sharp has played probably his best season in the Euroleague, being a key factor so many times. He plays a less important role in the PL, since sabres come to more playing time there. Jaime Arnold has been solid, although his midrange shot seems to have disappeared. He is on the downhill of his career, after having played better previously. We can only say, he became a better defender and could get big-time rebounds, if needed.

Sorry, for trying to answer your anticipated remark to that. You won't find a single person, neither here nor in other Israeli basketball communities, who would tell you sth. else. We are all rooting for Israeli teams and players to succeed, but we also have to keep fan-glasses off our eyes and see the situation realistically.

[Calvin]

You've got to read the news more properly. Ironi Nahariya has never beaten MTA this season. Maccabi had two one-point losses more or less at the buzzer on the road, which is actually not that bad, since Maccabi didn't go without losses throughout a season even with Parker, Saras, Solomon etc. on their roster, having lost heavily to Hapoel Jerusalem and Hapoel Tel-Aviv, for example. It also lost one game in the Cup.

The PL is degressing from year to year, after having had its best season in 2003-2004, when MTA won the Euroleague, Hapoel Jerusalem won the ULEB Cup, HTA finished third in Fiba Euroleague, which was a strong league by then with several really good teams. If it wouldn't be for a total blackout in the second half of the semifinal, HTA would have had a good chance to take the cup. Also, Ironi Nahariya has ended its season of step before the Final Four. Israel has had four good representatives in Europe since then and a strong, a legendary MTA team used to be beaten by their opponents in the league in a great fashion.
Right now, other teams were able to compete with MTA sometimes, because of a complete roster overhaul of MTA, which played without a real PG. Only Jerusalem has retained its strength of the previous years and might have gotten even stronger since then, albeit it didn't win the ULEB Cup this season. Otherwise, the league is not getting better. There are not more Israelis than before in key or important roles in their teams, although good Israeli players are now getting more playing time in better teams. Never before has Maccabi Tel-Aviv yielded as many Israelis on court and not on roster since European teams have started to sign more than two foreigners. Although we can see some solid young players, the league is still being dominated by foreign players, mostly Americans. The National Team can't get their act together and loses to clearly worse teams. Israeli players, who used to play quite good three-four years ago, have regressed in their game. Sasson used to be better but he lacks work ethic and can't succeed in big teams. Green cannot develop his offensive game and come off the bench. Yet I believe, he can still be a solid, productive player in lesser teams, while taking a starting role. He simply can't come off the bench. Halperin has had more chances this season than throughout his whole career in Israel but had just 3-4 really good games, Euroleague and Premier League combined. The rest was crap. To have minimal ratings in 25 minutes on court without losing the ball too much, while playing the point and thus dominating the ball, is just a sign of lack of effort. You always have somethign to do. But Halperin is just too timid. Yet, he could surely succeed in any other team not named Maccabi, a team, where his mistakes would not be judged so harshly by fans. I think, he could be quite a useful player in any mid-level Euroleague team. But not Maccabi.
MTA is supposed to have theb est Israeli players on their roster that's why all the talking about them. Some other Israeli players, like Tapiro, Hagag, Markovitz, Kozikaro, Limonad, Ohayon, Casspi etc. have been solid or even becam better (the youngero nes) but they are still no top players. Eliyahu gained important experience but didn't improve much. He still has no mid-range shot we could talk about, he still doesn't dribble the ball well enough to cope with a bad shot while still being a good one-on-one player (like Chris Williams, formerly Frankfurt Skyliners). He also have to gain strength. Otherwise, he is young, big, athletic and can play aggressive at times, if he puts his head into it. As to the foreign born Israeli players, Derrick Sharp has played probably his best season in the Euroleague, being a key factor so many times. He plays a less important role in the PL, since sabres come to more playing time there. Jaime Arnold has been solid, although his midrange shot seems to have disappeared. He is on the downhill of his career, after having played better previously. We can only say, he became a better defender and could get big-time rebounds, if needed.

Sorry, for trying to answer your anticipated remark to that. You won't find a single person, neither here nor in other Israeli basketball communities, who would tell you sth. else. We are all rooting for Israeli teams and players to succeed, but we also have to keep fan-glasses off our eyes and see the situation realistically.

Ironi beat Maccabi the second game of the cup and the U20 team dominated the competition in Douai. Halperin is still a 6-4 point guard with ability and Lior Eliyahu can still leap out of the gym. Stick to soccer and the Bundesliga.

oMV8EsP9rqc

[goga78]

Ironi beat Maccabi the second game of the cup and the U20 team dominated the competition in Douai. Halperin is still a 6-4 point guard with ability and Lior Eliyahu can still leap out of the gym. Stick to soccer and the Bundesliga.

oMV8EsP9rqc

Ironi beat MTA in a game, where it had to overcome a total 18-point deficite in just 10 minutes of the fourth quarter. I missed that loss, of course, but it didn't mean anything, since MTA has almost surely qualified for the next round after a combined 70 minutes of play. No pun to Nahariya, though. They won, so they deserved to win.

It's interesting, how you point towards where I have to stick. Why don't you stick somewhere else or just leave this forum, ha? The fact that soccer is the most popular sport throughout the world and, of course, in Germany, doesn't make me a soccer expert automatically or an ignorant towards basketball.

The Israeli team, which was older than the rest of the squads, won the tournament in Douai. It was a tournament, consisting of just six teams. While the win is certainly nice, it doesn't mean anything, talking of major wins in international competition. I hope, however, that Israel will be able to do some major noise at the upcoming Junior EBC.
Besides, Israel has won two silver medals and missed the final by a single shot in the recent three Junior EBCs. But who is interested in these successes, when they don't pan out as successes at major leagues? These Israeli youngsters go out there and can't win anything at men's level. Seems like the losers of yesterday - the other teams - catch up and move ahead of their Israeli peers in a very short period of time.
As you know, professional basketball doesn't consist of U-20 players only and somehow other nations are always able to yield more talent and production out of their basketball schools. ISrael is not to blame for it, being a small country with its citizens being interested in non-athletic-careers, but still, a fact is a fact.

Halperin has talent and size, he just doesn't translate it into on-court success. Eliyahu is not that good an leaper as you are trying to suggest here, although he's above average in Israel (high reach due to long arms, not due to superb leaping ability). And this dunk of Halperin is veery nice. A pro player in his early twenties, who would not be able to dunk on a one-on-none fastbreak of a 30-point win, would be considered non-athletic at all. Surprise, surprise, but I have seen Halperin do a two-handed reverse dunk while warming up before the 2004 Euroleague final. A professional is never being judged by his sheer dunking ability, much less, if it is a PG and not a wing player. So, who cares?! Man, any half-way decent athlete starting with 180 cm and up should be able to dunk. Otherwise, he is not athletic enough. Please, excuse my unhumble statement here, but I'm speaking of personal non-professional experience, being on the better side of athletic equation ;)

[MikeMaccabiFan]

Funny YouTube piece - actually voice is more interesting than video - commentators saying how bad Green (center of NT) is...:p
And all this discussion is pointless :
1. Because there are no teams who can compete to Maccabi in PL ,unfortunately...(Especially if Bluth doesn't leave to NBA and Gaidamak will not help J-m...) Maccabi will be better team this year for sure:D
2. We having it in millionth time - saying that Pl is getting worse, that it is dominated by low level american players (who, despite someone's baseless conviction, are not struggling...:p ), not israelis ; that Halperin is talented but has no balls to talk about, that Eliyahu is athletic and talented too but has no defense and not middle-long range shot, that our youth NTs are good, but players because of lack of work and attitude disappear afterwards, etc. etc. etc.
Oh I forgot Caspi, who might be good enough to heat some bench in NBA....:D

[Czarkazem13]

Ironi beat Maccabi the second game of the cup and the U20 team dominated the competition in Douai. Halperin is still a 6-4 point guard with ability and Lior Eliyahu can still leap out of the gym. Stick to soccer and the Bundesliga.

LOL, that's your response?

Israel usually does good in youth tournaments but the players seem to regress as they get older (mayble military duty and/or bad coaching). While Halperin does have potential he is NOT living up to it and disapears in games (lack of confidence). Eliyahu (along with Casspi) is a better prospect IMHO, but as Goga stated he still has were to do to improve.

BTW, so what if Eliyahu can jump out the gym (which in the NBA he would be maybe slightly-above-average athlete), what does that have to do with basketball skills. He's a good finisher, but still has to work on his...well what everyone else seems to repeatidly tell you.

Now stick to baseball and the MLB.

[Czarkazem13]

BTW, does anyone know what's up with Gaidamak, is he going to buy or fund another team (an maybe put half as much effort in it as he does Beitar in football)?

[Arik]

BTW, does anyone know what's up with Gaidamak, is he going to buy or fund another team (an maybe put half as much effort in it as he does Beitar in football)?

IMHO he'll continue to support Beitar and Hapoel at least till the elections of Jerusalem's mayor (more than one year from now). ;)

[Calvin]

I'm excluding Arik but you guy crack me up. You're posting the it's irrelevent the the U20 team dominated the U19 teams. I got news for you there are players on the french team that are lying about their age. It happens all the time look at the South Korean little league world series baseball team. You criticize Caspi's and Eliyahu's defense as not being nba ready. The nba doesn't even play defense in the regular season. Hell, the so called rookie-of-the-year Brandon Roy is ten times worse the defender of either Caspi, Halperin or Eliyahu. Roy's a fraud the real rookie-of-the-year was Andrea Bargnani the league wanted to give the award to an american.

[goga78]

I'm excluding Arik but you guy crack me up. You're posting the it's irrelevent the the U20 team dominated the U19 teams. I got news for you there are players on the french team that are lying about their age. It happens all the time look at the South Korean little league world series baseball team. You criticize Caspi's and Eliyahu's defense as not being nba ready. The nba doesn't even play defense in the regular season. Hell, the so called rookie-of-the-year Brandon Roy is ten times worse the defender of either Caspi, Halperin or Eliyahu. Roy's a fraud the real rookie-of-the-year was Andrea Bargnani the league wanted to give the award to an american.

As always... look at Roy's stats and at Bargnani's stats. Bargnani was just a complementary player for Toronto, whereas Roy was a leading player for the Blazers. Of course, someone, who averages 11 ppg, 4 rpg with bad shooting percentage as a seven-footer is worth to be named ROY over an even better shooting baccourt player, who has shown complete game with 17/4/4. The league wants to keep the league American and doesn't hand out MVPs to foreign-born players on the regular basis. Now, if there are some coaches, who prefer American players to international ones, the lion share of league officials, journalists etc. don't follow this mattern.
Caspi's defense is non-existant, Eliyahu's not strong enough to play defense at "4", Halperin is way too slow to catch up even with quicker Euroleague guards. While it's true, that there is a lot of disorganised play withing the lower-part NBA teams, these players are still better one on one defenders than their European counterparts, since they are mostly quicker, stronger and more athletic.

For the last time, the win at Douai is nice but doesn't bring you any medal. Neither at men's sport nor at junior championships. I genuinely hope, Israel is going to the podium at the next JEBC, but right now we don't know. And why should French players lie about their age? Where is your proof? Why not German, Lithuanian, US or Australian players? Why not Israeli players?

You remind me of that sort of guys, who used to be claiming that Craig Ehlo was a better team player than Jordan and a more complete player than Jordan. You simply fell in love with a specific player or players of a specific natgionality and you are blind to any fact of life. If you haven't noticed before, no one has ever agreed with you on player evaluation. No one. Zero. Zilch. No basketball fan from any country in the world. Isn't it strange? Nono of them does know the level of play in the PL, none of them has ever been to a pro basketball game in their country or abroad?

Your only success here is that some people keep on responding to your postings instead of simply banning you or neglecting your throw-ins. I guess, it would help, since you wouldn't want to lead soliloquies. But in your case, one never knows...

[Calvin]

As always... look at Roy's stats and at Bargnani's stats. Bargnani was just a complementary player for Toronto, whereas Roy was a leading player for the Blazers. Of course, someone, who averages 11 ppg, 4 rpg with bad shooting percentage as a seven-footer is worth to be named ROY over an even better shooting baccourt player, who has shown complete game with 17/4/4. The league wants to keep the league American and doesn't hand out MVPs to foreign-born players on the regular basis. Now, if there are some coaches, who prefer American players to international ones, the lion share of league officials, journalists etc. don't follow this mattern.
Caspi's defense is non-existant, Eliyahu's not strong enough to play defense at "4", Halperin is way too slow to catch up even with quicker Euroleague guards. While it's true, that there is a lot of disorganised play withing the lower-part NBA teams, these players are still better one on one defenders than their European counterparts, since they are mostly quicker, stronger and more athletic.

For the last time, the win at Douai is nice but doesn't bring you any medal. Neither at men's sport nor at junior championships. I genuinely hope, Israel is going to the podium at the next JEBC, but right now we don't know. And why should French players lie about their age? Where is your proof? Why not German, Lithuanian, US or Australian players? Why not Israeli players?

You remind me of that sort of guys, who used to be claiming that Craig Ehlo was a better team player than Jordan and a more complete player than Jordan. You simply fell in love with a specific player or players of a specific natgionality and you are blind to any fact of life. If you haven't noticed before, no one has ever agreed with you on player evaluation. No one. Zero. Zilch. No basketball fan from any country in the world. Isn't it strange? Nono of them does know the level of play in the PL, none of them has ever been to a pro basketball game in their country or abroad?

Your only success here is that some people keep on responding to your postings instead of simply banning you or neglecting your throw-ins. I guess, it would help, since you wouldn't want to lead soliloquies. But in your case, one never knows...

This forum was about other teams in the PL. If you want to censor someone who posts the reality that there is discrimination against israeli players in the nba or the israeli players have improved and are improving email Stuart.

[goga78]

This forum was about other teams in the PL. If you want to censor someone who posts the reality that there is discrimination against israeli players in the nba or the israeli players have improved and are improving email Stuart.

It's not about censoring oponions, it's just about not letting through spam. Discrimination against Israli players could happen, if there would be any Israeli playersin the league. Since no Israeli players are even being considered, they are not good enough at NBA-tailored game. It does not make them bad players, they simply don't fit NBA style in order to crack the rotation and play an important role. Israeli players aren't particularly tall, fast or athletic, while playing with heart, if needed. But that alone isn't enough for the NBA. It's still too early for Eliyahu, Halperin and Casspi. Other players wouldn't play any important roles. Of course, Green could be like the 12th player of his team, but he isn't tall enough to play 5 and not fast enough to play 4.

As to non-MTA Israeli teams, there is not much to say. Jerusalem has had a good season, but it will be tough for them to keep up with this year's space. Other teams don't have any money and won't be good anytime soon. Of course, they can be decent in the PL but not outside of it. Not, because the're Israeli, Calvin, but because they lack money.

[Calvin]

It's not about censoring oponions, it's just about not letting through spam. Discrimination against Israli players could happen, if there would be any Israeli playersin the league. Since no Israeli players are even being considered, they are not good enough at NBA-tailored game. It does not make them bad players, they simply don't fit NBA style in order to crack the rotation and play an important role. Israeli players aren't particularly tall, fast or athletic, while playing with heart, if needed. But that alone isn't enough for the NBA. It's still too early for Eliyahu, Halperin and Casspi. Other players wouldn't play any important roles. Of course, Green could be like the 12th player of his team, but he isn't tall enough to play 5 and not fast enough to play 4.

As to non-MTA Israeli teams, there is not much to say. Jerusalem has had a good season, but it will be tough for them to keep up with this year's space. Other teams don't have any money and won't be good anytime soon. Of course, they can be decent in the PL but not outside of it. Not, because the're Israeli, Calvin, but because they lack money.

I can't take you seriously when you imply the nba is more physical than the PL or israelies aren't tall, fast or athletic.

[Calvin]

Lee Nailon has left Bnei but bnei signed two new American players that I never heard off. I think Bnei may be headed to relegation.

[goga78]

I can't take you seriously when you imply the nba is more physical than the PL or israelies aren't tall, fast or athletic.

Sure. That's why you can find lots of 6'10'' Israelis and why US players succeed in the PL (as well as in other leagues around the world) because of their superb bball IQ and not because of speed, strenght and athleticism.
You're a joke.

[Digdis]

Lee Nailon has left Bnei but bnei signed two new American players that I never heard off. I think Bnei may be headed to relegation.
What are you talking about? They have just renewed the contracts with Osman Sisse and Kuki Belcher, two of the best American players in the league last year. They only need a replacement for Nailon to close their roster. True, it's not likely that they will be able to make the kind of steal they had with Nailon again, but even with that, they seem to have a solid team for next year. They also seem to be the team that will be selected to play in the ULEB cup (on the account of Galil & Naharia), as their future seem to be the brightest among the three. They are surely very far from relegation.

[Calvin]

What are you talking about? They have just renewed the contracts with Osman Sisse and Kuki Belcher, two of the best American players in the league last year. They only need a replacement for Nailon to close their roster. True, it's not likely that they will be able to make the kind of steal they had with Nailon again, but even with that, they seem to have a solid team for next year. They also seem to be the team that will be selected to play in the ULEB cup (on the account of Galil & Naharia), as their future seem to be the brightest among the three. They are surely very far from relegation.

Bnei was unstoppable at the beginning of the year but struggled at the end. Ashkelon struggled with Marsh and Hatten, whom are better players I personally believe than Sisse or Belcher. Bnei Hasharon was lucky to acquire Lee Nailon and likely won't acquire a foreign player of his calibre this year or the near future. At the end of the year the teams that developed the israelies players, Galil, Naharyia, Maccabi, Jerusalem, Afula performed better than the teams that were based on acquired foreign talent Givat Shmuel and Ashkelon. I think a continuation of the same will happen this year with bnei hasharon.

[Calvin]

Sure. That's why you can find lots of 6'10'' Israelis and why US players succeed in the PL (as well as in other leagues around the world) because of their superb bball IQ and not because of speed, strenght and athleticism.
You're a joke.

There you go again, categorizing an entire group. I couldn't say such a blanket statement against an entire group when not a single individual was given an earned opportunity to prove themselves at the nba level but you can. Good Job.

[Calvin]

Galil has hired "Kanti Yeholef" as their new coach. He's former player that really needs the money, like Kattash.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

It's Eli Kanetti, you moron, not Kanti yahlif (which means "will substitute"))! BTW, which site did you read, "One" or telesport? (because all others say "muna"... (you would say Kanti Mone :D) or yaamen...(don't even want to think what you'd make of it...)
He's not ex-player - he's ex-coach (he didn't train anyone for some years...:rolleyes: )
And how can you claim you know anything about PL, when you do not remember two of Bnei Hasharon lead players??? And how you can compare Sisse and Belcher to anyone when you:

never heard of them?

[Calvin]

It's Eli Kanetti, you moron, not Kanti yahlif (which means "will substitute"))! BTW, which site did you read, "One" or telesport? (because all others say "muna"... (you would say Kanti Mone :D) or yaamen...(don't even want to think what you'd make of it...)
He's not ex-player - he's ex-coach (he didn't train anyone for some years...:rolleyes: )
And how can you claim you know anything about PL, when you do not remember two of Bnei Hasharon lead players??? And how you can compare Sisse and Belcher to anyone when you:
of them?

You looked at the file name of the picture, good job.

[goga78]

There you go again, categorizing an entire group. I couldn't say such a blanket statement against an entire group when not a single individual was given an earned opportunity to prove themselves at the nba level but you can. Good Job.

Yeah, right. To calm things down, just think of the following: the NBA is US based and that's why scouts, coaches, GMs etc. are primarily looking for US players. Usually, US players who make it to the league are tall, can jump and run AND have some sort of basketball IQ. Some of them have a very high IQ, some don't have much but are capable of competing in the league because they have a combination of strenght, athleticism and height. Players, who don't fit two of these criteria have to leave the NBA but can still be profilic players in other leagues. That's why undersized US power forwards and centers have always succeeded in Europe. They had usually power power and athleticism than their European counterparts and they could always rely on these aspects of their natural ability. Same goes for undersized PFs and centers who used to be too small for this position for the NBA but had a good shot and could move quickly. That's an iron rule that has worked throughout decades. European players have never been better defenders, especially one-on-one than American players. They have never been more athletic.

If you take a closer look at the PL, how many 6'10'' (208 cm) Israelis can you find? How many of them can actually play`? How many Israelis in general have ever played in top European leagues and excelled there on constant basis? Just to give you a hint, the Israeli League isn't top in Europe. How many fast guards (top level) are there? How many players do you know that are famous for their constant in-game dunking displays? Which Israeli players are being regarded as top defenders on European level? Do you know, what is the point, where basically all European players struggle at least in their first years in the NBA, if not for their entire career there? It's defense, Calvin. Defense, athleticism. Lots US players aren't smart defenders but they can always rely on their physical strength and athleticism.
Israeli players don't have to appear in the NBA in order to know that th level of competition there is like from another planet compared to the PL. After all, you don't have to jump off a house's roof in order to know that it isn't healthy. All European players who have gone overseas stated that the main difference is the higher pace and the harder defense in the NBA.

After all that said, Israel does still feature a couple of good European level teams with MTA and Hapoel Jerusalem, the national team is still mid-level, I would even say, without all the turmoils of the past year, it is in the top 10-12 of all of Europe but it isn't European best and European best is worse than regular American, if you look at a period of time and not at a lucky single game.

I guess that's enough.

[Calvin]

Yeah, right. To calm things down, just think of the following: the NBA is US based and that's why scouts, coaches, GMs etc. are primarily looking for US players. Usually, US players who make it to the league are tall, can jump and run AND have some sort of basketball IQ. Some of them have a very high IQ, some don't have much but are capable of competing in the league because they have a combination of strenght, athleticism and height. Players, who don't fit two of these criteria have to leave the NBA but can still be profilic players in other leagues. That's why undersized US power forwards and centers have always succeeded in Europe. They had usually power power and athleticism than their European counterparts and they could always rely on these aspects of their natural ability. Same goes for undersized PFs and centers who used to be too small for this position for the NBA but had a good shot and could move quickly. That's an iron rule that has worked throughout decades. European players have never been better defenders, especially one-on-one than American players. They have never been more athletic.

If you take a closer look at the PL, how many 6'10'' (208 cm) Israelis can you find? How many of them can actually play`? How many Israelis in general have ever played in top European leagues and excelled there on constant basis? Just to give you a hint, the Israeli League isn't top in Europe. How many fast guards (top level) are there? How many players do you know that are famous for their constant in-game dunking displays? Which Israeli players are being regarded as top defenders on European level? Do you know, what is the point, where basically all European players struggle at least in their first years in the NBA, if not for their entire career there? It's defense, Calvin. Defense, athleticism. Lots US players aren't smart defenders but they can always rely on their physical strength and athleticism.
Israeli players don't have to appear in the NBA in order to know that th level of competition there is like from another planet compared to the PL. After all, you don't have to jump off a house's roof in order to know that it isn't healthy. All European players who have gone overseas stated that the main difference is the higher pace and the harder defense in the NBA.

After all that said, Israel does still feature a couple of good European level teams with MTA and Hapoel Jerusalem, the national team is still mid-level, I would even say, without all the turmoils of the past year, it is in the top 10-12 of all of Europe but it isn't European best and European best is worse than regular American, if you look at a period of time and not at a lucky single game.

I guess that's enough.

What you've posted was some what partially true in the 90's, Drazen Petrovic, Sabonis and Doron Shefer would of performed well in the nba. The generation older than Caspi lacking big man I agree with but the generation of Caspi and younger are tall and really good. Good enough to dominate their top european and american counterparts and I don't see your generalizations applying to them.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

You looked at the file name of the picture, good job.
Which picture? What the hell are you talking about?
I just happen to know Hebrew, which you obviously do not...

[MikeMaccabiFan]

What you've posted was some what partially true in the 90's, Drazen Petrovic, Sabonis and Doron Shefer would of performed well in the nba.
With all due respect to Doron Sheffer he's not in the same league with Petrovich or Sabonis... Sheffer was worse than Marshall (which is not good enough...).
Sabonis did performed quite well in NBA (he would be better if Soviets would let him come there earlier).


The generation older than Caspi lacking big man I agree with but the generation of Caspi and younger are tall and really good. Good enough to dominate their top european and american counterparts and I don't see your generalizations applying to them.
Caspi is not good enough, sorry...

[Calvin]

With all due respect to Doron Sheffer he's not in the same league with Petrovich or Sabonis... Sheffer was worse than Marshall (which is not good enough...).
Sabonis did performed quite well in NBA (he would be better if Soviets would let him come there earlier).

Caspi is not good enough, sorry...

We'll see, Caspi only improves and wins everywhere he's been for the past half year. He even almost helped upset Maccabi in the final four. Anyway Avi Sukar maybe replacing Raviv Limonad at Ironi Naharyia.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

Look, why don't you start thread "Caspi is the greatest" and post there - otherwise you turn every thread in that one...

[goga78]

What you've posted was some what partially true in the 90's, Drazen Petrovic, Sabonis and Doron Shefer would of performed well in the nba. The generation older than Caspi lacking big man I agree with but the generation of Caspi and younger are tall and really good. Good enough to dominate their top european and american counterparts and I don't see your generalizations applying to them.

So, if it's true for things that have happened recently, there is no kind of boycott of Israeli players in the NBA.
Doron Sheffer has never been in the league of best European guards, although it seemed like he was on his way there early in his career. In the 1990ies, the NBA had better guards than it has now. Doron Sheffer has always been a physically weak player, absolutely not athletic and not particularly quick. But he had a good shot and a great court vision. Unfortunately, it was not enough to be in the NBA or to PLAY in the NBA.

As to the new generation, the jury is up to them. Right now, none of them is dominating in Europe, nobody is beating top European or American counterparts. But there are some players though, who could make a breakthrough, if they continue to work on themselves. But first of all, they need to grow physically and to be more consistent in offense and defense. But right now, it's way too early to talk about it. The top two talents at the wing are Eliyahu and Casspi. Eliyahu just managed to get onto the MTA team, while it is still too early for Casspi to play there and he needs real playing and not just being the 12th man on MTA's roster.

[Calvin]

So, if it's true for things that have happened recently, there is no kind of boycott of Israeli players in the NBA.
Doron Sheffer has never been in the league of best European guards, although it seemed like he was on his way there early in his career. In the 1990ies, the NBA had better guards than it has now. Doron Sheffer has always been a physically weak player, absolutely not athletic and not particularly quick. But he had a good shot and a great court vision. Unfortunately, it was not enough to be in the NBA or to PLAY in the NBA.

As to the new generation, the jury is up to them. Right now, none of them is dominating in Europe, nobody is beating top European or American counterparts. But there are some players though, who could make a breakthrough, if they continue to work on themselves. But first of all, they need to grow physically and to be more consistent in offense and defense. But right now, it's way too early to talk about it. The top two talents at the wing are Eliyahu and Casspi. Eliyahu just managed to get onto the MTA team, while it is still too early for Casspi to play there and he needs real playing and not just being the 12th man on MTA's roster.

Now you're just lying and posting revisionist history, I'm sensing a german stereotype. By the way Guni Izraeli is going to sign with Holon. He wants to play more minutes.

[goga78]

Now you're just lying and posting revisionist history, I'm sensing a german stereotype. By the way Guni Izraeli is going to sign with Holon. He wants to play more minutes.

WTF are you talking about? Are you smoking some shit or what?
Everyone here has already realized from my texts and my interest that I'm Jewish and who are you to talk to me about German stereotpes? Have you ever been outside of your state?!

So, revisionist history is when I simply repeat quotations of all scouts, the Clippers GM and every basketball fan of what were the strenghts and weaknesses of Doron Sheffer and why he didn't make it to the NBA?

Or is it because a win of an older junior team over a younger junior team doesn't equal to total domination of basketball of one country over basketball of another country? Israeli youngsters have got at least to the semifinals of the last three Junior EBCs. So what? It has never translated to men's game even with the involvement of those players.

You simply don't get it, man. No one is giving you right here and THIS is the forum where people discuss Israeli basketball, its positives and its negatives but aren't envolved in any kind of biased Israel-bashing (but you, who had uttered remarks concerning desert, life standards etc.) or exaggerated Israel-praising.
Trying to prove you sth. is just a waste of time. Trying to write anything to your topics is just a waste of time. Any time you meet such a biased person, it's a waste of time to prove sth. to it. Mostly, you are working for the public, if trying to respond but in this case even that is not a reason since YOU are not reasonable at all. All you can do is to work in stereotypes especially concerning other people place of living.

[Czarkazem13]

I'm excluding Arik but you guy crack me up. You're posting the it's irrelevent the the U20 team dominated the U19 teams. I got news for you there are players on the french team that are lying about their age. It happens all the time look at the South Korean little league world series baseball team. You criticize Caspi's and Eliyahu's defense as not being nba ready. The nba doesn't even play defense in the regular season. Hell, the so called rookie-of-the-year Brandon Roy is ten times worse the defender of either Caspi, Halperin or Eliyahu. Roy's a fraud the real rookie-of-the-year was Andrea Bargnani the league wanted to give the award to an american.

Wha? I didn't say it's irrelevent that the U20 team dominated U19 teams, I'm just stating that Israel has done well in youth tournaments in the past and the players did NOT live up to their potential.

As far as the French team lying about their age, possible, but do you have any links or stories? Can you give me a real link?

I actually wonder if you watch NBA games. Watch San Antonio, Dallas, Cleveland, Utah, Detroit, Chicago and tell me teams don't play D. Yeah, team D on most NBA teams is weak (almost as bad as team O), but like offense, it's mostly 1-on-1 D instead of zone. That doesn't mean they don't play D. This is almost as absurred as when you claimed that no NBA teams use the pic-n-roll or that they aren't any Israelis in the NBA due to politics....

I would get into the Roy winning the ROY over Bargnani, but Goga seemed to do well. I just don't know how you think the NBA is so biased aganst non-U.S. that they wouldn't give a European with poorer stats the ROY trophy over an American who's game was more complete WHILE the MVP of the Finals went to an European and the MVP of the season went to a Euro...?

BTW, what does: "Ignore Maccabi what other teams and players may have interesting seasons" mean?



Lee Nailon has left Bnei but bnei signed two new American players that I never heard off. I think Bnei may be headed to relegation.

Haven't you written about Cookie Belcher in other posts? Anyways, I don't know how you watched the PL and not know who he is? Same with Ousmane Cisse - not from the U.S. BTW - either. He is a good defensive player and rebounder, while Belcher was one of the top guards in the PL. Both are GOOD signings for Bnei.


Sure. That's why you can find lots of 6'10'' Israelis and why US players succeed in the PL (as well as in other leagues around the world) because of their superb bball IQ and not because of speed, strenght and athleticism.
You're a joke.

While I agree that Israelis lack height and Calvin is a joke, I would say compared to many Euro leagues, the Israelis aren't that bad of athletes.

I also believe Sheffer (far from a good athlete) had such a high bball IQ he would have succeeded on the right team (as a reliable backup of course).

German bias...LOL!


There you go again, categorizing an entire group. I couldn't say such a blanket statement against an entire group when not a single individual was given an earned opportunity to prove themselves at the nba level but you can. Good Job.

Isn't that what you do??? Anyways, Israelis have gotten the attention of NBA teams and have gotten chances to prove themselves - non of the did. Kattache was injured, Sheffer couldn't get a guaranteed contract, Burstein also got injured, and everyone else sucked in the summer league (except Green who would have just sat on the Piston's bench if he made the team).





That was fun....

[Calvin]

WTF are you talking about? Are you smoking some shit or what?
Everyone here has already realized from my texts and my interest that I'm Jewish and who are you to talk to me about German stereotpes? Have you ever been outside of your state?!

So, revisionist history is when I simply repeat quotations of all scouts, the Clippers GM and every basketball fan of what were the strenghts and weaknesses of Doron Sheffer and why he didn't make it to the NBA?

Or is it because a win of an older junior team over a younger junior team doesn't equal to total domination of basketball of one country over basketball of another country? Israeli youngsters have got at least to the semifinals of the last three Junior EBCs. So what? It has never translated to men's game even with the involvement of those players.

You simply don't get it, man. No one is giving you right here and THIS is the forum where people discuss Israeli basketball, its positives and its negatives but aren't envolved in any kind of biased Israel-bashing (but you, who had uttered remarks concerning desert, life standards etc.) or exaggerated Israel-praising.
Trying to prove you sth. is just a waste of time. Trying to write anything to your topics is just a waste of time. Any time you meet such a biased person, it's a waste of time to prove sth. to it. Mostly, you are working for the public, if trying to respond but in this case even that is not a reason since YOU are not reasonable at all. All you can do is to work in stereotypes especially concerning other people place of living.

Even my nemisis Czarkazem13 agrees with me that there are plenty of gifted israeli athletes. You can't beat our combined forces go back to the crap hole you came from.

[Calvin]

Wha? I didn't say it's irrelevent that the U20 team dominated U19 teams, I'm just stating that Israel has done well in youth tournaments in the past and the players did NOT live up to their potential.

As far as the French team lying about their age, possible, but do you have any links or stories? Can you give me a real link?

I actually wonder if you watch NBA games. Watch San Antonio, Dallas, Cleveland, Utah, Detroit, Chicago and tell me teams don't play D. Yeah, team D on most NBA teams is weak (almost as bad as team O), but like offense, it's mostly 1-on-1 D instead of zone. That doesn't mean they don't play D. This is almost as absurred as when you claimed that no NBA teams use the pic-n-roll or that they aren't any Israelis in the NBA due to politics....

I would get into the Roy winning the ROY over Bargnani, but Goga seemed to do well. I just don't know how you think the NBA is so biased aganst non-U.S. that they wouldn't give a European with poorer stats the ROY trophy over an American who's game was more complete WHILE the MVP of the Finals went to an European and the MVP of the season went to a Euro...?

BTW, what does: "Ignore Maccabi what other teams and players may have interesting seasons" mean?

Haven't you written about Cookie Belcher in other posts? Anyways, I don't know how you watched the PL and not know who he is? Same with Ousmane Cisse - not from the U.S. BTW - either. He is a good defensive player and rebounder, while Belcher was one of the top guards in the PL. Both are GOOD signings for Bnei.

While I agree that Israelis lack height and Calvin is a joke, I would say compared to many Euro leagues, the Israelis aren't that bad of athletes.

I also believe Sheffer (far from a good athlete) had such a high bball IQ he would have succeeded on the right team (as a reliable backup of course).

German bias...LOL!

Isn't that what you do??? Anyways, Israelis have gotten the attention of NBA teams and have gotten chances to prove themselves - non of the did. Kattache was injured, Sheffer couldn't get a guaranteed contract, Burstein also got injured, and everyone else sucked in the summer league (except Green who would have just sat on the Piston's bench if he made the team).

That was fun....

Brandon Roy should of been disqualified for missing a third of the season for a team that sucks and will continue to suck until they get an owner with some passion. Hmmm Cleveland, Dallas defensive standouts now you've posted everything.

Back to the topic most PL teams are signing national league prospects and developing them as soon as possible rather than signing college standouts.

[goga78]

Even my nemisis Czarkazem13 agrees with me that there are plenty of gifted israeli athletes. You can't beat our combined forces go back to the crap hole you came from.

You are so stupendous, it simply hurts. Israelis are ok athletes by European standards, but we are talking about their athleticism in comparison to NBA standards! Are you following discussions or what?!

[QUOTE=Calvin]Brandon Roy should of been disqualified for missing a third of the season for a team that sucks and will continue to suck until they get an owner with some passion. Hmmm Cleveland, Dallas defensive standouts now you've posted everything. I'm certainly a fan of the current Toronto team and I'm not a fan of the Portland Trailblazers. But I'm not blind to facts.

[goga78]

Even my nemisis Czarkazem13 agrees with me that there are plenty of gifted israeli athletes. You can't beat our combined forces go back to the crap hole you came from.

You are so stupendous, it simply hurts. Israelis are ok athletes by European standards, but we are talking about their athleticism in comparison to NBA standards! Are you following discussions or what?!


Brandon Roy should of been disqualified for missing a third of the season for a team that sucks and will continue to suck until they get an owner with some passion. Hmmm Cleveland, Dallas defensive standouts now you've posted everything.

Roy qualified due to NBA standards of qualification due to his total numbers. Roy played in 57 games, while Bargnani hit the floor on 65 ocassions. Big time difference! Both of them missed quite some games, both of them qualified. Roy was vastly superior to Bargnani, that's why he won the title. Would Bargnani have a similar impact on his team like Roy had on his with a little bit inferior numbers, he would have won the title, since his team was doing much better.
I'm certainly a fan of the current Toronto team and I'm not a fan of the Portland Trailblazers. But I'm not blind to facts.

So, why did Cleveland make it to the finals? Due to their superior offense? Or due to their solid swarming defense? Dallas is being considered one of the better defensive teams of the league since Avery Johnson took over this team. Man, one can grow tired of teaching you that 2 + 2 accounts to 4.

[Calvin]

You are so stupendous, it simply hurts. Israelis are ok athletes by European standards, but we are talking about their athleticism in comparison to NBA standards! Are you following discussions or what?!

Roy qualified due to NBA standards of qualification due to his total numbers. Roy played in 57 games, while Bargnani hit the floor on 65 ocassions. Big time difference! Both of them missed quite some games, both of them qualified. Roy was vastly superior to Bargnani, that's why he won the title. Would Bargnani have a similar impact on his team like Roy had on his with a little bit inferior numbers, he would have won the title, since his team was doing much better.
I'm certainly a fan of the current Toronto team and I'm not a fan of the Portland Trailblazers. But I'm not blind to facts.

So, why did Cleveland make it to the finals? Due to their superior offense? Or due to their solid swarming defense? Dallas is being considered one of the better defensive teams of the league since Avery Johnson took over this team. Man, one can grow tired of teaching you that 2 + 2 accounts to 4.

Those aren't facts, a fact is something that you can measure. Those are opinions and those opinions are wrong.

[goga78]

Those aren't facts, a fact is something that you can measure. Those are opinions and those opinions are wrong.

Man, man, man... You want facts? Look at pure numbers of Bargnani and Roy.

You want facts? Tell me notable Israeli players playing in leagues abroad and having leading roles in their teams. Tell me about Israeli players that are notable for their athleticism. Can you name like 5 of them? Can you name me a lot of European players, which game would be considered athletic after NBA standards? If there would be any, we would know about it. Eliyahu can be sonsidered as an athletic player? Maybe even your favourite junior player. Who else? More or less nobody. Of course, otherwise they would be playing for MTA or in good teams abroad and not in a crappy league, consisting of two good teams and two-three mediocre ones (European standards, not PL standards, where you can only chose from ten teams).

[Czarkazem13]

Brandon Roy should of been disqualified for missing a third of the season for a team that sucks and will continue to suck until they get an owner with some passion.

Bargnani played eight more regular season games then Roy. Wow! Roy had better stats and started all but two games, while Bargnani started two! Roy has more assists, points, rebounds(!), minutes, and steals pg then Bargnani. While Portland has a better PG and Chris Bosch, making it a better team then Portland. Your biasness against U.S. ballers (or maybe just that black ones) get's in the way of you truly evaluating basketball.


Hmmm Cleveland, Dallas defensive standouts now you've posted everything.

You didn't watch Cleveland or Dallas the last couple years after Mike Brown and Avery Johnson have taken over have you???


Back to the topic most PL teams are signing national league prospects and developing them as soon as possible rather than signing college standouts.

Well you only get four foreignors per team, that leaves eight spots for Israelis, I should hope there are more Israelis. Also, what' is your point? Who said any different?


Those aren't facts, a fact is something that you can measure. Those are opinions and those opinions are wrong.

LOL!!!! No wait....LOL!!!!!!

Since when do you care about facts?! You remind me of a person who punches someone and when the other person punches back you complain that they are violent...:D


Even my nemisis Czarkazem13 agrees with me that there are plenty of gifted israeli athletes. You can't beat our combined forces go back to the crap hole you came from.

Yeah there are a number of good athletic players, but that doesn't make then good basketball players either.

Yes there is Lior Eliyahu, Omri Casspi, Itzik Ohanon, Chanan Colman, Itai Lev, Gil Mozinson, Kobi Izik, Uriel Marko and plenty of other gifted athletes, but NONE of them have NBA game right now, only Eliyahu is EL level at the moment. Some aren't even in the PL. And I can name more, but NONE of them would be considered a super athlete by NBA standards. They just stick out more because the overall level of athleticism is below the NBA. Marko Millic, Rudy Fernandez, the Pietrus brothers are remarkable in Europe, but not in the NBA.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

Nemesis, huh:p

And while Mosinzon is athlete he isn't a player... hey, guy named "Hasamba" as his favorite movie, so I guess he haven't got all his screws screwed in...


Those aren't facts, a fact is something that you can measure. Those are opinions and those opinions are wrong.
ROTFLMAO... Who's talking:D By the way, when quoting me, you should mention it:p

[Czarkazem13]

Nemesis, huh:p

No, nemisis!:p

[Calvin]

Bargnani played eight more regular season games then Roy. Wow! Roy had better stats and started all but two games, while Bargnani started two! Roy has more assists, points, rebounds(!), minutes, and steals pg then Bargnani. While Portland has a better PG and Chris Bosch, making it a better team then Portland. Your biasness against U.S. ballers (or maybe just that black ones) get's in the way of you truly evaluating basketball.

You didn't watch Cleveland or Dallas the last couple years after Mike Brown and Avery Johnson have taken over have you???

Well you only get four foreignors per team, that leaves eight spots for Israelis, I should hope there are more Israelis. Also, what' is your point? Who said any different?

LOL!!!! No wait....LOL!!!!!!

Since when do you care about facts?! You remind me of a person who punches someone and when the other person punches back you complain that they are violent...:D

Yeah there are a number of good athletic players, but that doesn't make then good basketball players either.

Yes there is Lior Eliyahu, Omri Casspi, Itzik Ohanon, Chanan Colman, Itai Lev, Gil Mozinson, Kobi Izik, Uriel Marko and plenty of other gifted athletes, but NONE of them have NBA game right now, only Eliyahu is EL level at the moment. Some aren't even in the PL. And I can name more, but NONE of them would be considered a super athlete by NBA standards. They just stick out more because the overall level of athleticism is below the NBA. Marko Millic, Rudy Fernandez, the Pietrus brothers are remarkable in Europe, but not in the NBA.

I know arguing with someone that claims the nba has defensive and competitive intensity in the regular season and Dallas and Cleveland are defensive standouts is futile but Brandon Roy could be classified as high basketball IQ, poor athletic ability and poor defensive ability and he was given a chance and somewhat succeeded. How can you definitively claim that Lior Eliyahu, Omri Caspi, Raviv Limonad, Ohayon, Yotam Halperin, bla bla bla bla weren't given a chance wouldn't succeed.

[Czarkazem13]

I know arguing with someone that claims the nba has defensive and competitive intensity in the regular season and Dallas and Cleveland are defensive standouts is futile

Especially when you don't have an arguement to prove it wrong...


but Brandon Roy could be classified as high basketball IQ, poor athletic ability and poor defensive ability and he was given a chance and somewhat succeeded.

You forgot a good shooter and clutch! Not too mention a good ball hander and yes high basketball IQ. I also wouldn't call him a poor defender, just not the greatest (same with athletic ability).

If you wanna talk about a guard with high bball IQ and really not athletic and a poor defender then why not bring up J.J. Reddick? Who only played sporatically and mostly in garbage time (though improved near the end of the season).

BTW, athletic ability (as far as run/jump) isn't the only thing needed. Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Kevin McHale were/are not the greatest of athletes.


How can you definitively claim that Lior Eliyahu, Omri Caspi, Raviv Limonad, Ohayon, Yotam Halperin, bla bla bla bla weren't given a chance wouldn't succeed.

I believe you mean:


How can you [being me] definitively claim that Lior Eliyahu, Omri Casspi, Raviv Limonad, Yogev Ohayon and Yotam Halperin - if given the chance - wouldn't succeed in the NBA?

Correct me if that's not what you were trying to say - wait aren't you from the U.S.?

Now the answer:

Very easily - I didn't!

Next?

[Calvin]

Especially when you don't have an arguement to prove it wrong...



You forgot a good shooter and clutch! Not too mention a good ball hander and yes high basketball IQ. I also wouldn't call him a poor defender, just not the greatest (same with athletic ability).

If you wanna talk about a guard with high bball IQ and really not athletic and a poor defender then why not bring up J.J. Reddick? Who only played sporatically and mostly in garbage time (though improved near the end of the season).

BTW, athletic ability (as far as run/jump) isn't the only thing needed. Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Kevin McHale were/are not the greatest of athletes.



I believe you mean:



Correct me if that's not what you were trying to say - wait aren't you from the U.S.?

Now the answer:

Very easily - I didn't!

Next?

God damn you're paranoid someone post the truth that an israeli didn't play on some crappy nba team for the past 40 years and the Jailblazers will always be a screwed up underachieving organization as long as the apathetic Paul Allen is the owner of the organization and you get flustered and upset. I love the excuse of you labeling an entire group of people inferior to play in the nba ir the jailblazers are going in a new direction because of a change of management. Neither are true and I personally find both excuses amusing.

[Czarkazem13]

God damn you're paranoid someone post the truth that an israeli didn't play on some crappy nba team for the past 40 years and the Jailblazers will always be a screwed up underachieving organization as long as the apathetic Paul Allen is the owner of the organization and you get flustered and upset. I love the excuse of you labeling an entire group of people inferior to play in the nba ir the jailblazers are going in a new direction because of a change of management. Neither are true and I personally find both excuses amusing.

So you thought that this was such a good response you would type it in two different forums???

So instead of recycyling my answer, you can go to: "Oded Katash is the new coach of Maccabi Tel Aviv!"

I love the whole "excuses" and "flustered and upset" thing. BTW, the fact that you have the same response to two different posts just shows how you have a hard time comprehending.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

No, nemisis!:p
Huh?

Lack of connection between left and right side of the brain;)

[Calvin]

You know what I like about the PL. The PL allow real competition in management, unlike the nba that only breath in ownership is attention whore Mark Cuban. Someone like Miki Dorsman could build and coach a team like Holon and if he fails as an owner he'll be gone. Sports needs more real entrepreneurship instead of the rich attention whores.

[goga78]

You know what I like about the PL. The PL allow real competition in management, unlike the nba that only breath in ownership is attention whore Mark Cuban. Someone like Miki Dorsman could build and coach a team like Holon and if he fails as an owner he'll be gone. Sports needs more real entrepreneurship instead of the rich attention whores.

What? So you are not content with rich owner of NBA teams that have allowed to have all these superstars and to make them worldwide superstars? Is there sth. you like about the NBA? While it's true, that by far not all regular season games in the NBA feature defensive intensity that would be possible with such players, the reason is that there are far too many games (82). While when you are watching PL games, every seconds of them features little defense (take the last round of the PL before playoffs. Maccabi met very little defensive resistance, MTA and the other teams were just running up and down the court without playing defense, which resulted in high scores. But the thing is, you play just a third of NBA season's games in Israel and the playoffs are much shorter (any version of them). And teams still don't play good defense all season long, although for some of them every game matters.

[Czarkazem13]

You know what I like about the PL. The PL allow real competition in management, unlike the nba that only breath in ownership is attention whore Mark Cuban. Someone like Miki Dorsman could build and coach a team like Holon and if he fails as an owner he'll be gone. Sports needs more real entrepreneurship instead of the rich attention whores.

What are you talking about?!?

And what does this have to do with the conversation???

LOL, you are just full of incorrect non sequiturs; It's like you got torrets of the fingers...

[Digdis]

Back on topic (I hope):
Bnei Hasharon are now the clear favorites for the 2nd place after agreeing terms with Meir Tapiro, Hapoel Jerusalem's guard. This is after keeping almost all of last year's roster (except Nailon).
Jerusalem seems to be falling apart. Pity that Galil and Jerusalem will be the ones representing Israel in the ULEB cup.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

Walla published that league management will try to push Bnei Hasaron to ULEB cup too, but it's not clear how real it is.

And Jerusalem looses their israeli players fast - Naor is close to Nahariya....

[Czarkazem13]

Huh?

Lack of connection between left and right side of the brain;)

Lol, I was just cracking on Calvin's spelling.


Walla published that league management will try to push Bnei Hasaron to ULEB cup too, but it's not clear how real it is.

And Jerusalem looses their israeli players fast - Naor is close to Nahariya....

Bnei seems to be putting up a decent team hopefully they will be moved to the ULEB Cup too. Nahariya (signed Sukar too) seems to get good Israeli talent, but their foreignors aren't always the best (kinda the opposite of Bnei).

What's up with Jeru? Does Gaidamak (Gaydamak) still have relations with them and are they keeping anybody?

[MikeMaccabiFan]

in Jerusalem only Hag'ag' and Pnini have a contract for next year, otherwise it is not clear. Limonad should be back from Nahariya, but he wants to play in Europe this year.
And it seems for me that Gaidamak is not helping - at least for now... (Well, he lost few millions on "Tiv Taam" deal...)

[Digdis]

And it seems for me that Gaidamak is not helping - at least for now... (Well, he lost few millions on "Tiv Taam" deal...)
Gaydamak will likely stop supporting Jerusalem. Most of his investments are for the sake of publicity, and investing in a crumbling team (as it seems for now) won't do him any good. About Tiv Taam BTW, he didn't really lose much: He just compensated one of the owners with $2M, and invested another $2M in the other owner's stocks. Reasonable price for him (one minor arms deal) to get the publicity he wanted.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

4 million bucks are "few millions" I was talking about, and while it's not much for Gaydamak (who didn't get good publicity anyway) - Jerusalem can only dream about reaching $4M....
Anyway, now it is official - Naor signed in Nahariya, and Limonad in La Man, not much good players left on the market for Jerusalem to sign...

[Digdis]

Holy crap!
According to this (http://www.sport5.co.il/articles.aspx?FolderID=274&docID=22210&lang=he), my beloved Holon is during "advanced" negotiations with Lee Nailon. The player requests $550,000.
This is unbeliavable. Just a month ago, it was not sure whether they could raise enough budget to stay in the PL. And now suddenly they negotiate with Nailon on these kinds of amounts. WTF?
I just hope Gaydamak is not their new sponsor, otherwise they will lose all my sympathy.

[Digdis]

Holon has just added Avishay Gordon, Galil's guard, to its roster. There are also rumors about it negotiating with two quality foreigners.
God I would love to see this team in the F4 again. Not sure whom I will cheer for if it faces Maccabi...

In the mean time, Jerusalem doesn't seem to give up that easily: Reports say that it negotiates with Gerone Roberts (Israeli citizen). Good move by them if it works out. Same reports say that they also target Yaniv Green, Corey Carr (who may get citizenship as well), former team member Moshe Mizrahi and Afula's guard Yehu Orland. If they manage to bring all these guys with some decent foreigners, then they are back on the right track again.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

Holon has just added Avishay Gordon, Galil's guard, to its roster. There are also rumors about it negotiating with two quality foreigners.
God I would love to see this team in the F4 again. Not sure whom I will cheer for if it faces Maccabi...

In the mean time, Jerusalem doesn't seem to give up that easily: Reports say that it negotiates with Gerone Roberts (Israeli citizen). Good move by them if it works out. Same reports say that they also target Yaniv Green, Corey Carr (who may get citizenship as well), former team member Moshe Mizrahi and Afula's guard Yehu Orland. If they manage to bring all these guys with some decent foreigners, then they are back on the right track again.
Only Orland seems to be signing there - as Mizrahi signed in Racing and Green is rumored to be wanted by Cibona or some French teams. And about Carr - it's up to Baga"z, since interior ministry in their answer said he's somehow different from Kolauti and Tamuz...

[raph]

Do you think that eric campbell (http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?clubcode=lem&pcode=KOK)has a good chance to get israeli citizenship this year ? I know he's married with an israeli woman and he always said he wanted to go back to israel some day. Asking considering this guy with a bosman status could interest a bunch of teams i guess.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

Not aware how long is he married and how long he asked for citizenship - it usually takes some time - 4-5 years (especially if guy is playing outside of Israel). So hard to say...

[raph]

ok. He has played in israel for a while though in the past. Well anyway if you are not aware of any rumor, i guess it's not for now. Thanks for replying.

[ArnoldPettybone]

Do you think that eric campbell (http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?clubcode=lem&pcode=KOK)has a good chance to get israeli citizenship this year ?

Unless he signs for maccabi/converts to Judaism-No.