Spanish police and Lithuanian fans brawl

[Basket_]

krepsinis.net wrotes that before the game scandal happened. When Lithuanians were going to arena someone cut Lithuanian flag. Then special police force (about 50 policemans) came and started to beat lithuanians with police "bananas".

Police didn't cared that among those fans also was a women. Few fans were hurted into heads and had to go to hospital. One of them was one of most famous lithuanian basketball fan, guy with big bearth Sėkla (his photo: http://euro2007.lt/public/index.php?page=gallery-item&gallery=57&id=27 ). btw that women, who also was hurted, is Sėkla' wife.

Here are some photo from conflict place:
http://www.krepsinis.net/spain2007/news.php?news_id=73062

[Hepcat]

krepsinis.net wrotes that before the game scandal happened. When Lithuanians were going to arena someone cut Lithuanian flag. Then special police force (about 50 policemans) came and started to beat lithuanians with police "bananas".

Police didn't cared that among those fans also was a women. Few fans were hurted into heads and had to go to hospital. One of them was one of most famous lithuanian basketball fan, guy with big bearth Sėkla (his photo: http://euro2007.lt/public/index.php?page=gallery-item&gallery=57&id=27 ). btw that women, who also was hurted, is Sėkla' wife.

Here are some photo from conflict place:
http://www.krepsinis.net/spain2007/news.php?news_id=73062

Hopefully that will provide the Lithuanian team with even more motivation to knock off the Spanish team.

;)

[SlickroX]

Sorry for little bit out of topic, but are there any news about those Lithuanian fans, who were victims by Spanish guards? As I understood one of the Spanish Guards riped Lithuanian flag, and one of the greatest Lithuanians fans - Sekla, began to protect Lithuanian flag, and then somewhere about twelve spanish guards just smashed him, and his wife. Is he okey or in Hospital? I'm very confused and upset what Spanish guards just did...

[Straight forward]

Realy, what kind of crap is going on with those bastards Spain cops? "Sekla" (the leader of Lith fans) is arrested and now the police is talking about 1-3 years jail or something :confused: what a crap. Those bastards smashed the flag of Lithuania, beat the women... what a hell? This is Spain? :eek:

[lafa]

Realy, what kind of crap is going on with those bastards Spain cops? "Sekla" (the leader of Lith fans) is arrested and now the police is talking about 1-3 years jail or something :confused: what a crap. Those bastards smashed the flag of Lithuania, beat the women... what a hell? This is Spain? :eek:


dude, you are overreacting... i saw at least 3 different reportages about this accident and all lithuanian witnesses/victims were telling almost the same story, but details were different. and none of them were sober... :(
honestly i don't know what to believe, but let's not jump to conclusions... we'll find out everything soon enough...

[Morente]

Realy, what kind of crap is going on with those bastards Spain cops? "Sekla" (the leader of Lith fans) is arrested and now the police is talking about 1-3 years jail or something what a crap. Those bastards smashed the flag of Lithuania, beat the women... what a hell? This is Spain?


In Spain I read nothing about those incidents. Newspapers, radios and televisions didn't mention anything like that. Police cannot talk about 1-3 years of jail, that's a matter of the judges. At least they can denounce infractors. I suppose an altercation happened for whatever reason and they arrested people involved; this should end with a fine and the fans will be free soon, unless something more serious happened.

With that said, if a drunk spanish fan group would have had those kind of incidents in another country, before talking trash about the police I would feel ashamed about how they acted. And I'll never say that that is Lithuania...

[Shniooras]

In Spain I read nothing about those incidents. Newspapers, radios and televisions didn't mention anything like that. Police cannot talk about 1-3 years of jail, that's a matter of the judges. At least they can denounce infractors. I suppose an altercation happened for whatever reason and they arrested people involved; this should end with a fine and the fans will be free soon, unless something more serious happened.

With that said, if a drunk spanish fan group would have had those kind of incidents in another country, before talking trash about the police I would feel ashamed about how they acted. And I'll never say that that is Lithuania...

What about our flag? :mad:
Today in Lithuania
http://g.delfi.lt/images/pix/file14344606_IMG_0965.jpg

[insider]

spaniard policemen cut lithuanian flag into pieces in frint of lithuanian fans. I would't recomend any spaniard to be in Lithuania at the moment.

[Jan van Grabski]

I would't recomend any spaniard to be in Lithuania at the moment.

LOL. I hope you are not serious ? otherwise i will have to ban you for the promotion of hatred or contempt against identifiable group :rolleyes:

The whole event is very sad, but common guys...you can't blame the whole spain for what was done by several man. Besides, how do you if our fans acted really correctly as they claim ? Let's just hope the guy will be released and nothing more serious will happen.

[lafa]

spaniard policemen cut lithuanian flag into pieces in frint of lithuanian fans. I would't recomend any spaniard to be in Lithuania at the moment.


and were did you hear that flag was cut into pieces? in one reportage they showed that flag - one side was cut from a stick, it wasn't cut apart... i think in this case alcohol made huge "bear's favour" (lithuanian saying meaning that something does more harm than good) to our fans in spain...

[insider]

LOL. I hope you are not serious ? otherwise i will have to ban you for the promotion of hatred or contempt against identifiable group :rolleyes:

The whole event is very sad, but common guys...you can't blame the whole spain for what was done by several man.

I have not promoted anything, only telling what is the atmosphere in our country now, just loook at the front pages of newspapers, internet portals, everybody is just boiling. Not because of the arrest of drunken fan , but because of humiliation of our cuntrie's flag.

[lafa]

LOL. I hope you are not serious ? otherwise i will have to ban you for the promotion of hatred or contempt against identifiable group :rolleyes:

The whole event is very sad, but common guys...you can't blame the whole spain for what was done by several man. Besides, how do you if our fans acted really correctly as they claim ? Let's just hope the guy will be released and nothing more serious will happen.

from your mouth - into god's ear! let's hope everything will be settled without unnecessary hatred...

[insider]

and were did you hear that flag was cut into pieces? in one reportage they showed that flag - one side was cut from a stick, it wasn't cut apart... i think in this case alcohol made huge "bear's favour" (lithuanian saying meaning that something does more harm than good) to our fans in spain...


It could be, both sides are tellling complete different stories about same event, i'm only telling that emotions in Lithuania are boiling at this moment because of that. Even our primeminister Kirkilas made a phonecall to our ambasador about this.

[kestas]

spaniard policemen cut lithuanian flag into pieces in frint of lithuanian fans. I would't recomend any spaniard to be in Lithuania at the moment.

others say Spanish security asked fans not to take one flag into an arena for some reason, but Liths still tried to go through and in the process the flag was accidentally torn apart (edit: I'm reading policement tore the flag and threw in=t into a garbage bin, because it had an illegal polo or something), after which some of the Liths overreacted and were arrested. no explanation about the beating of Sekla's wife in this version though.. there are more questions than answers at the moment I'm afraid.. (I have an unbased feeling both sides should take partial responsability and resolve the conflict peacefully ;))

[lafa]

It could be, both sides are tellling complete different stories about same event, i'm only telling that emotions in Lithuania are boiling at this moment because of that. Even our primeminister Kirkilas made a phonecall to our ambasador about this.


like i said already - don't jump to conclusions... wait for all the details of the accident to come out into publicity...

it's like situation with juniors - spain accused liths and garastas is the first to apologize even though nothing was proved at that time

[Morente]

spaniard policemen cut lithuanian flag into pieces in frint of lithuanian fans. I would't recomend any spaniard to be in Lithuania at the moment.


I don't want to participate in any dispute with our Lithuanian friends, but I would say that I really don't believe that this happened as you write. And I'm going to tell you why.

Madrid wants to organize the Olympic games of 2016. They are making an intense campaign about this, and Madrid contend to organize this Eurobasket as part of that campaign (really as part of the campaign to 2012 Olympic games that ended up being on London). Madrid is the last city interested in having its police cutting flags into pieces of our guests countries. Our main interest would be to demonstrate that we can organize perfectly a major sports event, and be sure that the police would have received instructions to be very careful with this incidents. Also there have been said absolutely nothing in Spanish media about this.

I really believe this is an overexposed incident that will end with a fine at most.

[lafa]

I don't want to participate in any dispute with our Lithuanian friends, but I would say that I really don't believe that this happened as you write. And I'm going to tell you why.

Madrid wants to organize the Olympic games of 2016. They are making an intense campaign about this, and Madrid contend to organize this Eurobasket as part of that campaign (really as part of the campaign to 2012 Olympic games that ended up being on London). Madrid is the last city interested in having its police cutting flags into pieces of our guests countries. Our main interest would be to demonstrate that we can organize perfectly a major sports event, and be sure that the police would have received instructions to be very careful with this incidents. Also there have been said absolutely nothing in Spanish media about this.

I really believe this is an overexposed incident that will end with a fine at most.

you actually answered your own question why noone in Spain heard about this accident ;)
think about it...

[adebisi]

few photos:
http://www.euro2007.lt/atack.rar

[re5pectas]

Sekla isn't such agressive usually, I saw him in Siemens arena many times, he never seemed to be too drunk, especially before the game!
And if some photos of his wife being beated with "bananas" to head will appear, or better video of whole accident, I will 100% believe the story of fans. Till now, I don't want to make conclusions.

P.S. maybe we need a new thread about this accident?

[insider]

POLICE ATTACKED LITHUANIAN FANS

On September 10 th. before the end of Italy and Turkey game, security guards have broken the national Lithuanian flag carried by Lithuanian fans. The reason – too long flag stick. After this action, Lithuanian fans were trying to figure out why guards are so disrespectful.

Results:
* brutal actions against fans – against men and women
* squashed head cheef of fans Tomas Balaisis [nickname SEKLA]. Look at the pictures.
* SEKLA is taken to police, he is waiting for trial tomorrow [12th of september]
* after he’ll get out from police, SEKLA is planning to arrange press conference

On the 11 th of September Lithuanian fans made picket near the embassy of Spain in Lithuania. Fans from Lithuania are sending e-mails to the embassy of Spain in Lithuania because of brutal actions and disrespect for Lithuanian nation in Madrid's Arena

[insider]

In 2011 champ is taking place in Lthuania.

[kestas]

IOur main interest would be to demonstrate that we can organize perfectly a major sports event, and be sure that the police would have received instructions to be very careful with this incidents. Also there have been said absolutely nothing in Spanish media about this.

the former fact means Spain is really serious about their intentions, imho, as they seem to be hiding the information from the public (which dould mean they are not proud of what the police did).
I mean your thoughts do not prove LTU version wrong at all, maybe even the contrary :/ anyways, I take any of my accusational words back until the solid info gets available.

[elaj]

Slovenian reporter also was there and described the incident like this:

Even before the end of the Italy - Turkey game, Spanish police stopped a group of Lithuanian fans. Then Spanish police cut a piece of the stick which holds the Lithuanian flag, and after that Lithuanian fans started to argue with Spanish police why this is so important because they came in and out of the Madrid Arena with same stick and flag on it before... after that Spanish police attacked the fans with rubbers.

He said fan which came out of the fight worst was Tomas Balaisis (http://www.prostimet.com/fotoz/ep2007/litva_incident/title_s.jpg) who was just defending his wife who got an epilepsy attack during the brawl, but Spanish police still hit her.

Balaisis was taken by the police, tomorrow he should speak before the judge in Madrid.

[Civilis]

I would not dismiss the alcohol factor in this case, although "Sekla" Balaisis is absolutely not an agressive type of person (ok, his public image). I could imagine the Lithuanian fans got pissed off when/if something happened to the national flag (the biggest boost of patriotism is always during the basketball championships) and could really get out of control (afterall, we broke the Soviet Union with our stubborness, which is almost the national trait :D)

One thing is clear - the Spanish police did not control the situation in a professional way. It is probably the biggest dumb-head organization in every country (next to the army)

[lafa]

another version of the incident which actually fits spanish reporter's version:
about the incident (http://www.verslosavaite.lt/content/view/1323/32/)

what it basically says is that Balaisis "Sekla" did hit police officer with a drum stick after which he was brought down and handcuffed

[re5pectas]

There is a petition already on the internet http://www.peticijos.lt/visos/39
3000 ppl signed down from the morning already

[obe31]

another version of the incident which actually fits spanish reporter's version:
about the incident (http://www.verslosavaite.lt/content/view/1323/32/)

what it basically says is that Balaisis "Sekla" did hit police officer with a drum stick after which he was brought down and handcuffed
Thats how the Greek Journalists described the incident as well...Is it true his wife had an epilepsy attack?Jesus...i hope she is fine.Pity really cause LIthuanians as far as i know never caused any problems in games..

[BlackAdder]

I wonder, what sort of policemen Spaniards have at Arena Telefonica? If they are from the same crack squad that occasionally sees action in Ibiza Night Clubs, I'm not surprised then - they are notorious for their heavy handed tactics. Generally (without any prejudice and just based on my personal experience), when you put an uniform on a Mediterranean guy, you automatically empower him with more authority that he's able to handle. It goes for army, police, train inspectors etc etc :) On the other hand, seeing in each video feed from Spain how every Lithuanian fan has at least 8 mugs of beer before him on the table, I cannot help but wonder whether this had some bearing on the incident as well. :confused:

[insider]

2011 EC tourney will take place Lithuania, these retarded cops better be punished properly. I like new chant of our fans : Uno, dos, tres-ispanams pizdec ( don't know that word english translation ).

[Straight forward]

2011 EC tourney will take place Lithuania, these retarded cops better be punished properly. I like new chant of our fans : Uno, dos, tres-ispanams pizdec ( don't know that word english translation ).

come on man! you're acting like stupid kid. Or like stpid "marozas", "gezas", "lopas" :p i understand your pain, i'm preety angry too! But there's nothing to do with Spain, spanish fans, players. It's only about cops. remember two rules- all cops ar bastards and never trust a cop! :cool: never put all things in one shit- cops, nation, government, people.

[BlackAdder]

Tell that to a guy who'll be in charge of investigating theft of your car :) He'll be in love with your attitude :D

[lafa]

2011 EC tourney will take place Lithuania

what this has to do with incident?
what i'm afraid of is that our power structures are as bad as spanish, if not worse - they don't know other languages (except older ones know russian) , they don't compromise, they are pretty brutal when they have a chance...

[BlackAdder]

what this has to do with incident?
what i'm afraid of is that our power structures are as bad as spanish, if not worse - they don't know other languages (except older ones know russian) , they don't compromise, they are pretty brutal when they have a chance...

Bull's eye. On the other hand, somehow I lack the power of imagination to paint a picture of thousands and thousands foreign fans descending majestically into Klaipėda and Šiauliai :) Get serious people, this is basketball EC, not football. Two local cops will be enough to handle three Spanish and four Greek fans :D

[obe31]

.Generally (without any prejudice and just based on my personal experience), when you put an uniform on a Mediterranean guy, you automatically empower him with more authority that he's able to handle. It goes for army, police, train inspectors etc etc :) On the other hand, seeing in each video feed from Spain how every Lithuanian fan has at least 8 mugs of beer before him on the table, I cannot help but wonder whether this had some bearing on the incident as well. :confused:
So in your opinion it is in Mediterranean nations nature to be brutal when wearing a uniform unlike all polite and gentle little Lithuanians...come on man that is so mean what you said. So since i am a mediterranean person as soon as i wear a uniform i start hitting people. Please please please do not generalize,it is unfair for the rest of people. Cause people would then tend to do the same thing to you. For example everytime you get a nothern guy into a pub he behaves like a friking barbarian....hmm...not really true is it? I thought so...

[Civilis]

For example everytime you get a nothern guy into a pub he behaves like a friking barbarian....hmm...not really true is it? I thought so...

Well, I hate to admit it, but here you are right :D :D :D

My formula of the event:

[Northern "barbarians" with alcohol-diluted brains whose sense of self-importance grows in the band and with the victories of national team] + [proud Spanish macho cops in uniforms, bored by doing nothing while everyone is having a party in the stadium and happy to release their masculine energies on some disrespecting the authority fans]

[obe31]

Well, I hate to admit it, but here you are right :D :D :D

My formula of the event:

[Northern "barbarians" with alcohol-diluted brains whose sense of self-importance grows in the band and with the victories of national team] + [proud Spanish macho cops in uniforms, bored by doing nothing while everyone is having a party in the stadium and happy to release their masculine energies on some disrespecting the authority fans]
Hahaha! So i am not right! Because i thought that wasnt the case for Nothern guys! Anyway as i said in my knowledge i have never heard of Lithuanians causing problems. They like their drink ..ok..but they are not hooligans

[rikhardur]

Generally (without any prejudice and just based on my personal experience), when you put an uniform on a Mediterranean guy, you automatically empower him with more authority that he's able to handle.
That's an awful generalisation even if without prejudice ;)
The thing is only the policemen involved are to blame (if proved so), not a whole country, its people and much less its basketball.

[Civilis]

Hahaha! So i am not right! Because i thought that wasnt the case for Nothern guys! Anyway as i said in my knowledge i have never heard of Lithuanians causing problems. They like their drink ..ok..but they are not hooligans

The Lithuanian fans are never really aggressive, but very stubborn and can become a real pain in the ass of the so-called official authorities, especially when the issues, such as national pride, are touched upon. That's how the Soviet Union was brought down (of course, no alcohol involved here :)) - do you think some Spanish welfare state police can withhold them here? :D :D :D

[BlackAdder]

So in your opinion it is in Mediterranean nations nature to be brutal when wearing a uniform unlike all polite and gentle little Lithuanians...come on man that is so mean what you said. So since i am a mediterranean person as soon as i wear a uniform i start hitting people. Please please please do not generalize,it is unfair for the rest of people. Cause people would then tend to do the same thing to you. For example everytime you get a nothern guy into a pub he behaves like a friking barbarian....hmm...not really true is it? I thought so...
No, my friend, what I meant, that Mediterranean guys tend to get airs when sporting a uniform, not necessarily being brutal or cruel, just soooooo self-important :p

[obe31]

No, my friend, what I meant, that Mediterranean guys tend to get airs when sporting a uniform, not necessarily being brutal or cruel, just soooooo self-important :p
Ok what can i say. Obviously i can not say anything that would change your mind. It is your opinion and i respect it. However i have to point out that just because you may have had some bad experiences does not mean that all people are like that. I have seen many people from nothern nations acting like clowns when drunk but this does not mean that everybody is like that. I suppose they will always be people in every nation in the world (including mine) who think they are the best and live in their little worlds.

[obe31]

The Lithuanian fans are never really aggressive, but very stubborn and can become a real pain in the ass of the so-called official authorities, especially when the issues, such as national pride, are touched upon. That's how the Soviet Union was brought down (of course, no alcohol involved here :)) - do you think some Spanish welfare state police can withhold them here? :D :D :D
Ops i better stop posting cause you are all getting a bit patriotic here...:D

[rikhardur]

Since the discussion is getting long, I thought it would be appropriate to have a separate thread about the matter. Keep the discussion clean ;)

[BlackAdder]

Obviously i can not say anything that would change your mind. It is your opinion and i respect it. However i have to point out that just because you may have had some bad experiences does not mean that all people are like that.
I am sorry if I've said something that caused offense. I would certainly not think that any generalization might be universally applicable to all people of any region.

[obe31]

Since the discussion is getting long, I thought it would be appropriate to have a separate thread about the matter. Keep the discussion clean ;)
As we always do. :D I see you have changed the thread title good because we were not talking about the game. :)
Now that you have changed the thread title let talk about the game France - Lithuania :p

[obe31]

I am sorry if I've said something that caused offense. I would certainly not think that any generalization might be universally applicable to all people of any region.
Even thought this is what started this conversation i would have to assume that sometimes words are said in the heat of the moment and i am completely fine with that. It was nice talking to you all as always of course :D

[rikhardur]

As we always do. :D I see you have changed the thread title good because we were not talking about the game. :)
Now that you have changed the thread title let talk about the game France - Lithuania :p
A new thread was simply created with the posts concerning the brawl, the thread about the game is still there ;)

[BlackAdder]

So, the court let Sėkla go and adjourned proceedings, provided he comes back to Spain in 3-4 months for another court session. The policemen failed to present charges in this session while Sėkla pleaded not guilty. Well, let's hope the incident is exhausted. Lithuanian fans will stop being so melodramatically sensitive, while Spanish cops will learn to behave in a less trigger happy fashion.

[re5pectas]

I want video of incident! I want to know what happened!
There must been cameras around arena, I guess...
And Sekla became more popular and important around here :rolleyes: :cool:

[Samuel]

Generally (without any prejudice and just based on my personal experience), when you put an uniform on a Mediterranean guy, you automatically empower him with more authority that he's able to handle. It goes for army, police, train inspectors etc etc :)

Please, don't bring racist comments like that to this forum. It's possible that spanish police acted brutally. It may happen (like in every other country). To be honest I don't know the facts and I can't comment, but you must be aware that a) if it happened exactly as you describe, it was spanish policemen's fault, not whole whole Spain's one. There's no hate against Liths at all, and we're really sorry about it . b) making racist comments and burning flags won't help.

[BlackAdder]

Please, don't bring racist comments like that to this forum. It's possible that spanish police acted brutally. It may happen (like in every other country). To be honest I don't know the facts and I can't comment, but you must be aware that a) if it happened exactly as you describe, it was spanish policemen's fault, not whole whole Spain's one. There's no hate against Liths at all, and we're really sorry about it . b) making racist comments and burning flags won't help.
Please, Samuel, as I've already explained to my Greek friend in the same thread, I apologize if my comments are misconstrued as racist, because this is the last thing I would want. My observations are simply meant to convey the differences I noticed in, say, Nordic countries and Mediterranean ones, which, you'll doubtless allow for, exist. Noticing such differences is not racist, making fun out of it is not racist, especially, since as every sane person I believe, that national or regional advantages in one area are always balanced by shortcomings in another.

[LuDux]

Sekla says he is accused of attacking 3 police officers:rolleyes:

[Pinone]

C'mon guys, you all know that police is shit all around the world, not spanish cops only! :rolleyes:
I don't know how really that incident happened, anyway I want to apologize with lith fans. But be sure, my friends, that we are gonna kick your ass in the final!:D

[Jmaquaes]

I wonder, what sort of policemen Spaniards have at Arena Telefonica? If they are from the same crack squad that occasionally sees action in Ibiza Night Clubs, I'm not surprised then - they are notorious for their heavy handed tactics. Generally (without any prejudice and just based on my personal experience), when you put an uniform on a Mediterranean guy, you automatically empower him with more authority that he's able to handle. It goes for army, police, train inspectors etc etc :) On the other hand, seeing in each video feed from Spain how every Lithuanian fan has at least 8 mugs of beer before him on the table, I cannot help but wonder whether this had some bearing on the incident as well. :confused:

I am sorry to hear this happened. I completly agree with you on the uniform issue. Anyway and from my own experience with Spanish Police. If they are crack units mostly used to control and if callled disolve gatherings, they will use extreme force against anyone. Probably from the point of view of people going bye they will act most of the times unprovoked and wont give a damm if a woman is on their way having an epilectic attack. For them it would be as if she was trying to hit them from the floor. Moreso if the Lith fans are drunk.
And please guys dont judge a whole country for their police forces....
I hope everything is ok and the guy imprisioned gets out to see Lithuania cruise to the final.

[obe31]

C'mon guys, you all know that police is shit all around the world, not spanish cops only! :rolleyes:
I don't know how really that incident happened, anyway I want to apologize with lith fans. But be sure, my friends, that we are gonna kick your ass in the final!:D
And if Spain loses in the final ,the spanish police would do it! hahahaha! sorry sorry i could not help my self thinking that, I apologise :D

[Jmaquaes]

what this has to do with incident?
what i'm afraid of is that our power structures are as bad as spanish, if not worse - they don't know other languages (except older ones know russian) , they don't compromise, they are pretty brutal when they have a chance...


Wouldnt it be like this for every police force in the world ;-)?

[Jmaquaes]

Well, I hate to admit it, but here you are right :D :D :D

My formula of the event:

[Northern "barbarians" with alcohol-diluted brains whose sense of self-importance grows in the band and with the victories of national team] + [proud Spanish macho cops in uniforms, bored by doing nothing while everyone is having a party in the stadium and happy to release their masculine energies on some disrespecting the authority fans]

Jajajajajaj that sounds like what really must have happened.

[Jmaquaes]

Ok what can i say. Obviously i can not say anything that would change your mind. It is your opinion and i respect it. However i have to point out that just because you may have had some bad experiences does not mean that all people are like that. I have seen many people from nothern nations acting like clowns when drunk but this does not mean that everybody is like that. I suppose they will always be people in every nation in the world (including mine) who think they are the best and live in their little worlds.


It would be better said if it was stated that anyone wearing an uniform gets important airs.. and not only us meds.

[BlackAdder]

It would be better said if it was stated that anyone wearing an uniform gets important airs.. and not only us meds.

Nope. Danes, Swedes, Norwegians, Finns, Icelandic don't get airs. But, you know, they should be discounted here, since Nordic people generally are from another planet. Really, sometimes one feels inferior to them with all that honesty, generosity, absence of corruption, transparency and other dull good things :)

[obe31]

Nope. Danes, Swedes, Norwegians, Finns, Icelandic don't get airs. But, you know, they should be discounted here, since Nordic people generally are from another planet. Really, sometimes one feels inferior to them with all that honesty, generosity, absence of corruption, transparency and other dull good things :)
Hahahaha! You crack me up mate! You really do! Thats why they have the highest percentage of suicides and huge increase in Neonazi groups cause they are so nice! lol :D
Was my comment out of line? I hope not! If it was i would happily remove it. It was not meant in a bad way...i was trying to point out how individual perception could varry from nation to nation

[BlackAdder]

Hahahaha! You crack me up mate! You really do! Thats why they have the highest percentage of suicides and huge increase in Neonazi groups cause they are so nice! lol :D
Indeed, it is a strange phenomenon that countries with high suicide rates tend to have low murder rates. I guess it has to do something with destruction oriented inwards not outwards like among more extroverted people. As for neonazis... Well, after I saw reports about such groups in Israel, I thought that this beats everything. No country is immune from, I'm afraid.
But, back to Nordics, I prefer to admire them from the distance. Life is unbearably straight, honest and dull there :D

[obe31]

Indeed, it is a strange phenomenon that countries with high suicide rates tend to have low murder rates. I guess it has to do something with destruction oriented inwards not outwards like among more extroverted people.
If you are implying Mediterrnean countries have high criminal rates due to , accorind to you, directing destructive tendencies outwards i would be more than happy to inform you that Greece (since i have personal experience) has one of the lowest criminal rates in the world. The lowest gang related murders and crimes second to Saudi Arabia.So your theory does not really stand.
Anyway enough with this, lets talk about basketball

[c_fish]

Nope. Danes, Swedes, Norwegians, Finns, Icelandic don't get airs. But, you know, they should be discounted here, since Nordic people generally are from another planet. Really, sometimes one feels inferior to them with all that honesty, generosity, absence of corruption, transparency and other dull good things :)
I dont agree.Take a group of policemen from any of these countries and transfer them to i.e. Greece and after a while they'll start behaving like Greeks.Greek riots are nothing like the ones they were facing.
As for med cops;2yrs in Moscow not once I've seen traffic police helping disolving the traffic in a way other than fining you in order to get half the fine as a bribe,while in Greece you see cops breathing fumes in the middle of the road for several hours in order to redirect traffic.

This whole incident I thing was caused by the thickness/size of the flag pole.I guess (as lawfully not allowed though never actually this law is applied in Greece) also in Spain it cannot be above a certain size or else it is considered a weapon.So when the cops told them the pole was wrong,they replied the pole was OK in another stadium etc

[obe31]

I dont agree.Take a group of policemen from any of these countries and transfer them to i.e. Greece and after a while they'll start behaving like Greeks.Greek riots are nothing like the ones they were facing.
As for med cops;2yrs in Moscow not once I've seen traffic police helping disolving the traffic in a way other than fining you in order to get half the fine as a bribe,while in Greece you see cops breathing fumes in the middle of the road for several hours in order to redirect traffic.

This whole incident I thing was caused by the thickness/size of the flag pole.I guess (as lawfully not allowed though never actually this law is applied in Greece) also in Spain it cannot be above a certain size or else it is considered a weapon.So when the cops told them the pole was wrong,they replied the pole was OK in another stadium etc
lol Really? that was the real reason??The size of the pole? Bad things happend when people are overreacting...

[miurdock]

Sekla is freeeee!!! Ispania'a police didn't find reason to make Sekla guilty, or smth like this

http://www.verslosavaite.lt/content/view/1331/32/

[kestas]

Sekla is freeeee!!! Ispania'a police didn't find reason to make Sekla guilty, or smth like this

http://www.verslosavaite.lt/content/view/1331/32/

did you read the article? :)
the Spanish policeman (who reportedly was hurt by Sekla) failed to lay charges. basically the court was adjourned until this happens (after 3-4 months, reportedly), and then Balaisis (a.k.a. Sekla) will have to go to Spain for another hearing.
imho the result may be also due to the fact that Sekla dumped the officially assigned lawyer and his relatives hired a new one (also Spanish). The assigned lawyer reportedly told press that Sekla is facing prison sentence of 1 to 3 years, but the new layer told that Sekla should be released immediately. and the former indeed happened, Sekla is free to go and do whatever he wishes. edit: it appears Sekla will have to visit Spanish embassy in Vilnius twice a month till the next hearing, but his lawyer will try to release him from this. additionally under the intermediate ruling Sekla faces a fine or could be forced to compensate the injured policeman (at most). btw, a few idiots managed to tear something simmilar to the Spanish flag in Vilnius today. clearly something totally spontanic and not aproved by those who actually staged protests next to the Spanish embassy :( very embarrasing..

k

[c_fish]

lol Really? that was the real reason??The size of the pole? Bad things happend when people are overreacting...
I dont know... I concluded to this after reading the whole thread, especially post 23.The reason is that this pole can be used as a club much more effectively than the police ones.I dont know if they have the same law in Spain though.

Also in situations like these it is in the interest of the organizing country that these things dont get too "noisy" despite if is or not its fault.

[achinet]

2011 EC tourney will take place Lithuania, these retarded cops better be punished properly. I like new chant of our fans : Uno, dos, tres-ispanams pizdec ( don't know that word english translation ).

I'm sorry with you if that was like you tell. But we (the Spanish peope) are the really victims, we have to live with thats type of cops every day of every year. (by the way, not all are like this)

[insider]

I'm sorry with you if that was like you tell. But we (the Spanish peope) are the really victims, we have to live with thats type of cops every day of every year. (by the way, not all are like this)

Our cops are much worse, believe me .

[stuart]

A very contentious issue, I am just stopping in to say let's keep this cordial and the conversations on the high-end. Cheers

Stuart

[Captain CAAAVEMAAAAANNN!!]

So a couple of innocent and ingenuous lithuanian supporters were hanging around peacefully and blissfully happy when a horde of evil and bloody cops came in and -with no apparent reason- tore down their National flag, and threw it to the garbage bin. And when the supporters heroically went in defence of the country's pride, -probably adopting some Gandhi's techniques of non-violence- the malignant policemen started to heavily hit them with their deadly weapons.

Is it me or the guy's version sounds a bit... er... untrue?

No offense, but this "I'm innocent, the police arrested me for no reason" I have heard it before, really.

And for the guy who thinks that Mediterranean countries are Banana Republics…
well, even if we happen to live in the far away Southwest, we don’t really live in caves and eat our children. Needless to say that Lithuanians are superior to the rest of the people in intellectual capacity, basketball skills, handsomeness and ability to behave in a civilized way, but surprisingly enough, we, barbaric Mediterraneans, have a good deal of Constitutional rights over here. And smashing people is not something policemen like to do when bored. Not even Lithuanians.

[Javiky]

I

This whole incident I thing was caused by the thickness/size of the flag pole.I guess (as lawfully not allowed though never actually this law is applied in Greece) also in Spain it cannot be above a certain size or else it is considered a weapon.So when the cops told them the pole was wrong,they replied the pole was OK in another stadium etc
Yes, thats part of the "reason". Althaug, banners, flags... have a maximun size allowed in spanish and european laws, the main reason was the stick. Is not allowed carry and stick witch is bigger than 1 meter or made in wood, iron, steel or PVC (I don´t know how traslate that, is a material similar to plastic). The stick was made on PVC, and the couldn´t carry into the sports center. The policemen, try to tell that to the lith, but the spanish cops don´t speak another language, and probably liths don´t speak spanish. The cop don had a better idea than break the stick and the flag, Sekla feld insulted and hit the cop, cop´s mate started to hit lith.....and everybody knows what happened next

[Javiky]

you actually answered your own question why noone in Spain heard about this accident ;)
think about it...
link for one of the most important nespapers

http://www.abc.es/20070912/deportes-baloncesto/lituania-pide-investigue-altercado_200709120256.html

in Spain, you can know about this notice, But not all versions related(in the same way you can know the lith´s version, not the cops)

[ezys]

And smashing people is not something policemen like to do when bored. Not even Lithuanians.

rgyZoHhm3Xg

:confused:

[Javiky]

If you are implying Mediterrnean countries have high criminal rates due to , accorind to you, directing destructive tendencies outwards i would be more than happy to inform you that Greece (since i have personal experience) has one of the lowest criminal rates in the world. The lowest gang related murders and crimes second to Saudi Arabia.So your theory does not really stand.
Anyway enough with this, lets talk about basketball
he has to know where they can find his car, if his car was robbed in Spain.....German(99% of total are german cars) cars which are robbed in Spain, have been sold in Vilnius and Kiev,in the spanish mediterranean cost there are a lot of nordic and east Europe gangs and Mafia. I don´t think everybody from there are a mafia menber or criminal. We musn´t generalize whith others people, (the spanish people do, like the rest of the world)

I had been working on a trip to the Baltic, I hope you will be my new lith friends. :)
I´m sure liht are nice, people, just a couple blaze spanish flags or do stupid things like the cops involved in that case

[c_fish]

rgyZoHhm3Xg

:confused:
Boredom is completely different from calling (from my nonexistant knowledge of spanish language) ones mother a prostitute and then taunting "what you're going to do about it" .

[LuDux]

Boredom is completely different from calling (from my nonexistant knowledge of spanish language) ones mother a prostitute and then taunting "what you're going to do about it" .

Don't taunt sensitive spanish cops, they are so fragile..

[BlackAdder]

And for the guy who thinks that Mediterranean countries are Banana Republics…
well, even if we happen to live in the far away Southwest, we don’t really live in caves and eat our children. Needless to say that Lithuanians are superior to the rest of the people in intellectual capacity, basketball skills, handsomeness and ability to behave in a civilized way, but surprisingly enough, we, barbaric Mediterraneans, have a good deal of Constitutional rights over here. And smashing people is not something policemen like to do when bored. Not even Lithuanians.
I never said that you are trying to allege. I pointed out to obvious differences in temper etc existing in different countries and I am sick of people trying to be so bleedin' politically correct that any similar observations cause such an uproar. Likewise, in my previous posts I never compared favorably Lithuanian police to law enforcement in Mediterranean countries, never sang Te Deum Laudamus for our handsomeness etc. I sincerely believe that my own country and people has a lot to learn from the Nordics. As yours does.

[c_fish]

Don't taunt sensitive spanish cops, they are so fragile..

I see... Suppose a major athletic event such as this takes place in your country and I ,a greek fan, walk up to a policeman and call his mother a prostitute etc what do u think hes going to do?I guess he'll tap me in the back and then we go see the game in a nearby sportsbar while he's buying me beers,uh?

[LuDux]

I see... Suppose a major athletic event such as this takes place in your country and I ,a greek fan, walk up to a policeman and call his mother a prostitute etc what do u think hes going to do?I guess he'll tap me in the back and then we go see the game in a nearby sportsbar while he's buying me beers,uh?

I thought policemen supposed to have at least a bit of self-control

[toxmarius]

Such things happen all the time. I stronglly believe that if not the international event this incident would be forgotten a long time ago. One dude got into his head, big deal.. i don't understand why this event rised such hudge discutions. Why nobody writes about thousands of other people who are attacked out of the blue every day. Allthough i feel sorry for Sekla, i think that this all thing went too far already. I feel ashamed of those guys back here in lithuania who destroyed something similar to spanish flag, if it will be confirmed that it was actaully spanish flag they may get 2 years of inprisonment. This is called stupidness not patriotism.

[Samuel]

Boredom is completely different from calling (from my nonexistant knowledge of spanish language) ones mother a prostitute and then taunting "what you're going to do about it" .

It's sad to admit, what that's not happened. She is asking for help. That cops hit the girl who lies in the street when they tried to dissolve the crowd, but the other girl, innocently asked them for help (or recriminates them, isn't clear), and she gets also knocked. Other guys are insulting them, but not that girl.

This incident was very famous in our country. It happened before Irak's War, when people took the streets to complain.

As I said, it may happen as liths said. That kind of police ("antidisturbios"), may become violent because they usually fight against not-less-violent football fans. But talking without knowing the facts is nonsense. I actually believe that Javiky's explanation is the most probable. Some stupid security guard(not policeman), broke the stick(and the flag) because exceeded allowed length. Drunk liths fans reacted. Police saw it, and hit everybody near to the tumult. End of story.

[BlackAdder]

Such things happen all the time. I stronglly believe that if not the international event this incident would be forgotten a long time ago. One dude got into his head, big deal.. i don't understand why this event rised such hudge discutions. Why nobody writes about thousands of other people who are attacked out of the blue every day. Allthough i feel sorry for Sekla, i think that this all thing went too far already. I feel ashamed of those guys back here in lithuania who destroyed something similar to spanish flag, if it will be confirmed that it was actaully spanish flag they may get 2 years of inprisonment. This is called stupidness not patriotism.
Ditto

[c_fish]

I thought policemen supposed to have at least a bit of self-control
People seem to forget that policemen are also humans.Civillians,when being sweared like that,dont think more than a second to attack you.You may noticed that there is a "cut" in the video meaning you dont know how much time she was ranting. ;)

Try to see the things (video and thread topic) from a neutral perspective or put yourself in that guy's (or spanish police) shoes.

[LuDux]

People seem to forget that policemen are also humans.Civillians,when being sweared like that,dont think more than a second to attack you.You may noticed that there is a "cut" in the video meaning you dont know how much time she was ranting. ;)

Try to see the things (video and thread topic) from a neutral perspective or put yourself in that guy's (or spanish police) shoes.

You seem to forget that policeman on the job is policeman first. Players are human too, does that mean that they have right to beat fans in the stands if they say something not nice?

[toxmarius]

remember the event in NBA not very long time ago :) things happen

[Morente]

I think this incident is being overemphasized in this forum. And talking about what "Antidisturbios"( don't know how to call the in English, they are a special group of the policemen that control concentrations and risky situations involving lots of prople) I think has nothing to do with it, because I don't think that group were the one in the incident of the flag.

In my opinion, it should have been a misunderstanding between the police and the Lithuanian fans, and they didn't understand what they were told about the flag. That, mixed with the heat is in Spain in the Summer, the stress that a massive event can produce and maybe the alcohol drunk by some of the fans led to a little fight among fans and policemen.

Fortunately the arrested fan is free and no one is still hurt. In Spain little has been said about the incident; last game against Slovenia appeared in the screens of the court some statistics about the tournament and in one of them it said something like: "Leader in assists: Sarunas Jasikevicious (Russia); so that lithuanian fans began booing, so the locutor looked at them and commented that they had a banner that said "Libertad para Sekla" (freedom for Sekla) and none of the people broadcasting the game knew who Sekla was.

Believe me, there is nothing in Spain against Lithuania and their flag, in my opinion this is one of the countless incidents that happens at the entrance of every sports stadium holding a major event.

[c_fish]

It's sad to admit, what that's not happened. She is asking for help. That cops hit the girl who lies in the street when they tried to dissolve the crowd, but the other girl, innocently asked them for help (or recriminates them, isn't clear), and she gets also knocked. Other guys are insulting them, but not that girl.

Sorry man but the only words I can understand is "la puta madre" somewhere around 0'24" and body language


You seem to forget that policeman on the job is policeman first.Players are human too, does that mean that they have right to beat fans in the stands if they say something not nice?
Both,policemen and civilian (player), actions can be viewed by an ethical (normal,folk,every day behaviour) or legal point of view.

Say A and B meet in the street.If A swears at B,legally B must head to a police department and sue A.Ethically B swears back/attacks A.

Personally I despise actions such as when "fans" "hide" amongst several dozens other fans,sitting 2 m's high and swear,spit or throw objects at people (players),when they wouldn't have the guts to even look at them the wrong way if they ever met them on the street.Thats why I loughed my ass off when V.Maxwell or J.Jackson, Artest etc climbed the seat rows and showed them to be more carefull about their language.

It is highly hypocritical to show contempt at the law,by swearing or throwing objects at police officers or players,and then when they catch you if they hit you, you request to be treated according to the laws you disrespected a couple of minutes ago.

Since the modern societies are organized as "states of law" I agree that policemen should respond lawfully first (though the law sentence,if any, at least in Greece is nowhere near as Germany,England or Scandinavian countries hence the "ethical" response) but I dont blame them for responding "ethically" (for reasons said above).

[ezys]

Boredom is completely different from calling (from my nonexistant knowledge of spanish language) ones mother a prostitute and then taunting "what you're going to do about it" .

In fact the woman who suffers the agression isn't the one who "calls his mother a prostitute" (hijo de puta), she only says "what are you doing?" and then tries to make a phonecall.

[facnig]

In my opinion, alcohol explains a lot of these "disturbances" in stadiums......