1985/86 NCC Team

[usausa]

Hello! I need some help with the Jones Cup winning team and the ABC team. I know the rosters are slightly different, because some of the team wasnt naturalized yet. Which one was better? Pictures of players will help, or a direction on internet where I can find it. Also I need some info help because I want to create them in NBA Live '08 and or College Hoops 2K6.

I need help with height, weight, and college of all the players EXCEPT the following: Allan Caidic, Jerry Codinera, Samboy Lim, Hector Calma, and Chip Engelland. But I search the strengths and weaknesses of the players, if possible.

Players:
Hector Calma (strenghts and weaknesses)
Samboy Lim (same as Calma)
Allan Caidic (same as Calma/Lim)
Tonichi Yturri
Elmer Reyes
Yves Dignadice
Franz Pumaren
Pido Jarencio
Jerry Codiñera
Alfie Almario
Dennis Still
Jeff Moore
Chip Engelland
and anyone I may be missing from 85 Jones Cup title team.

THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP!!!

[usausa]

My bad i did not mean ABC, I meant the World Club Champions team.

[The_Big_Cat]

We had a betamax tape of the championship match between San Miguel-Philippines vs. USA in the 1985 Jones Cup.

I can't recall seeing Pido Jarencio and Jerry Codinera in that championship game. Maybe, they were on the reserve.

Dennis Still played injured in that championship game with an ankle sprain.
Chip Engelland & Caidic were fantastic from the 3-point area.
Samboy Lim and the athletic Jeff Moore played exceptional.
Samboy Lim even had a fastbreak one hand slam dunk.
Tonichi Yturri had few minutes relieving Dennis Still, who was in foul trouble.

Dignadice, Reyes, Almario I recall did not play in this game.
Ron Jacobs used a 8 to 9 man rotation on the whole tournament.
Calma and Franz alternated at the PG spot.
NBA player Joe Wolf played for the US-Jones Cup team.

The Starting five were Calma, Lim, Engelland, Moore and Still.

[Servinio]

Hector Calma - Adamson
Samboy Lim - Letran
Allan Caidic - UE
Tonichi Yturri - DLSU
Elmer Reyes - San Beda
Yves Dignadice - DLSU
Franz Pumaren - DLSU
Pido Jarencio - UST
Jerry Codiñera - UE
Alfie Almario - DLSU
Dennis Still - ?
Jeff Moore - ?
Chip Engelland - Duke
Benjie Gutierrez - UST
Jun Tan - DLSU
Bong Ramos - Mapua Tech
Peter Aguilar - Trinity

[donmar]

Is this for the PBA Live 2008?... or just another one?... I'm interested to have a copy of this for my NBA Live 08

[The_Big_Cat]

Chip Engelland (6'2", small forward) wore the number 10 jersey,
Dennis Still (6'8", center) wore the number 13 jersey and
Jeff Moore (6'3", power forward) wore the number 15 jersey
for the NCC and San Miguel-Philippines team.

[Sakamoto]

The NCC team is the reason why i love to watch basketball games specially if its an international game featuring our country.

[joel23]

We had a betamax tape of the championship match between San Miguel-Philippines vs. USA in the 1985 Jones Cup.

I can't recall seeing Pido Jarencio and Jerry Codinera in that championship game. Maybe, they were on the reserve.

Dennis Still played injured in that championship game with an ankle sprain.
Chip Engelland & Caidic were fantastic from the 3-point area.
Samboy Lim and the athletic Jeff Moore played exceptional.
Samboy Lim even had a fastbreak one hand slam dunk.
Tonichi Yturri had few minutes relieving Dennis Still, who was in foul trouble.

Dignadice, Reyes, Almario I recall did not play in this game.
Ron Jacobs used a 8 to 9 man rotation on the whole tournament.
Calma and Franz alternated at the PG spot.
NBA player Joe Wolf played for the US-Jones Cup team.

The Starting five were Calma, Lim, Engelland, Moore and Still.

If you can post in youtube?

[b3lowzro]

If you can post in youtube?

its illegal to post stuff like that in youtube, try veoh or daily motion

[bolabasket]

Players:

5-9 Hector Calma, PG (Strength - natural PG, good passer, good perimeter shooter and defender; Weakness - undersized)
6-0 Samboy Lim, G/F (S - athletic, explosive and quick off-the dribble; W - undersized)
6-2 Allan Caidic, G/F (S - excellent outside shooter; W - suspect defense)
6-5 Tonichi Yturri, C (S - strong defender; W - offensive liability and slow)
6-2 Elmer Reyes, F (S - great finisher; W - suspect defense)
6-4 Yves Dignadice, F (S - good defender with good perimeter game; W - too thin)
5-9 Franz Pumaren, G (S - good PG reliever; W - undersized)
5-9 Pido Jarencio, G (S - explosive scorer; W - undersized)
6-6 Jerry Codiñera, C (S - good defense; W - slow)
6-3 Alfie Almario, F (S - good outside shooter; W - not much playing time)
6-8 Dennis Still, C (S - good rebounder; W - poor free throw shooter)
6-3 Jeff Moore, F (S - excellent rebounder and scorer; W - undersized)
6-2 Chip Engelland, F (S - excellent outside shooter; W - undersized)

[Alex07]

this team was cemented a long time ago.I didn't have the chance to see them play on TV.

[The_Big_Cat]

this team was cemented a long time ago.I didn't have the chance to see them play on TV.
Either you were too young to watch or you weren't born yet to watch them play. :D

They were an all-amateur team because professional players were not allowed to play in international tournaments back then.

[ankle breaker]

i've seen some of these players in the late 80's but failed to watch their games in the jones cup or in the ABC championships.

[usausa]

its illegal to post stuff like that in youtube, try veoh or daily motion

Out of curiosity, May I ask how is it illegal?

Also, thank you for all the help so far. I am creating them in NBA Live '08 and debating where to put them on a team. When I start to create and play and adjust, I will try my best to post. My ratings for NBA Live are the next gen, or the ones where it takes like 30 min just to do ratings. The major topics there are teamwork, athleticism, inside, outside, and defense.

[Alex07]

Either you were too young to watch or you weren't born yet to watch them play. :D

They were an all-amateur team because professional players were not allowed to play in international tournaments back then.


Maybe I was too busy watching Voltes-5 and Voltron then:D

[ankle breaker]

or the flying house...

[usausa]

Players:

5-9 Hector Calma, PG (Strength - natural PG, good passer, good perimeter shooter and defender; Weakness - undersized)
6-0 Samboy Lim, G/F (S - athletic, explosive and quick off-the dribble; W - undersized)
6-2 Allan Caidic, G/F (S - excellent outside shooter; W - suspect defense)
6-5 Tonichi Yturri, C (S - strong defender; W - offensive liability and slow)
6-2 Elmer Reyes, F (S - great finisher; W - suspect defense)
6-4 Yves Dignadice, F (S - good defender with good perimeter game; W - too thin)
5-9 Franz Pumaren, G (S - good PG reliever; W - undersized)
5-9 Pido Jarencio, G (S - explosive scorer; W - undersized)
6-6 Jerry Codiñera, C (S - good defense; W - slow)
6-3 Alfie Almario, F (S - good outside shooter; W - not much playing time)
6-8 Dennis Still, C (S - good rebounder; W - poor free throw shooter)
6-3 Jeff Moore, F (S - excellent rebounder and scorer; W - undersized)
6-2 Chip Engelland, F (S - excellent outside shooter; W - undersized)

May I ask, do you have weights as well for the players?
When I create the players, the college will come up as N/A. I might possibly use them in city. Its amazing how in bball games, about all of them dont have or cant fit Philippines, but when I play NHL 2K series or the EA Sports version, they have Philippines as a birth option lol. odd.

[The_Big_Cat]

or the flying house...
I love that "Flying House". That was on GMA-7. They were two of them religious cartoons movie alternating on late afternoons on weekdays. :D

[ankle breaker]

send us a copy of that game once it's done.:D

[bolabasket]

correction:
NCC 1985 William Jones Cup Champion Team

FINAL GAME: RP 108 USA 100 (OT)
Best Player: Chip Engelland - 42 points

(s) - stands for starter

Point Guards - Hector Calma (s), Franz Pumaren, Al Solis
Off Guards - Jun Tan, Samboy Lim (s), Naning Valenciano
Small Forwards - Elmer Reyes, Chip Engelland (s), Allan Caidic, Alfie Almario
Power Forwards - Jeff Moore (s), Yves Dignadice, Tonichi Yturri
Centers - Dennis Still (s), Jerry Codiñera

Schools:
Elmer Reyes - San Beda, 180 lbs
Hector Calma - Adamson, 160 lbs
Alfie Almario - DLSU, 180 lbs
Franz Pumaren - DLSU, 165 lbs
Jun Tan - DLSU, 170 lbs
Tonichi Yturri - DLSU, 195 lbs
Jerry Codiñera - UE, 200 lbs
Allan Caidic - UE, 173 lbs
Ludovico Valenciano - DLSU, 177 lbs
Yves Dignadice - La Salle Bacolod, 178 lbs
Avelino Lim - Letran, 175 lbs
Al Solis - UV, 165 lbs
Arthur Engelland - Duke, 175 lbs
Dennis Still - 230 lbs
Jeff Moore - 195 lbs

[The_Big_Cat]

Their uniforms were similar to that of the San Miguel Beer-in-cans. White and Gold. They never wore a dark version of that uniform in the 85 Jones Cup.

[ankle breaker]

maybe they only have 1 set of uniforms then.:D

[usausa]

So I guess the only mystery left is the college of Dennis Still and Jeff Moore.

[The_Big_Cat]

Jeff Moore was recruited to play for the Tanduay franchise in 1987 for the Reinforce Conference with 2 imports for each team with a height limit of 6'3".

Unfortunately, Jeff Moore was a few hairlines above 6'3" but below 6'4".

Tanduay opted for Andre McCoy and Rob Willliams and won that 2-import layden conference.

[ankle breaker]

tanduay's loss is NCC's gain.

[usausa]

i promise i will try to get some caps up by friday. its difficult, trying not to make them, actually, ill use samboy as an example. my first attempt he ended up being a 97 rated player. im trying to make it good for an nba team, good challenge also for FIBA WC in the game. the team i have now beat china 98-77, outscoring them like 38-17 in the 4th after being tied. i then played the hawks, who i beat by like 50. work still to be done. cross my fingers for the next set! funny too, my line up in terms of ovr. p/player is like 81, 84, 87, 85, and 82 with caidc being an 86, then the bench (the rest) is like 61-67 lol! i will also only post ratings, since i suck at physical traits and creatin fthem.

[Servinio]

i promise i will try to get some caps up by friday. its difficult, trying not to make them, actually, ill use samboy as an example. my first attempt he ended up being a 97 rated player. im trying to make it good for an nba team, good challenge also for FIBA WC in the game. the team i have now beat china 98-77, outscoring them like 38-17 in the 4th after being tied. i then played the hawks, who i beat by like 50. work still to be done. cross my fingers for the next set! funny too, my line up in terms of ovr. p/player is like 81, 84, 87, 85, and 82 with caidc being an 86, then the bench (the rest) is like 61-67 lol! i will also only post ratings, since i suck at physical traits and creatin fthem.
ONE thing to note about the NCC-RP Team, they were not necessarily the best amateur players available at that time. Some of the players were even plucked from the Team B's of their schools. Apart from the starters, they were at best role players who knew what they were supposed to do. It just so happened that Coach Ron Jacobs was able to mold them in to the best TEAM possible.

[ankle breaker]

until when can we find another ron jacobs? by the way, how's coach jacobs these days? did he fully recover from the stroke he suffered a few years ago?

[usausa]

Good info I have received on another forum and I know some of you Filipino fans would like to see boxscores and articles...although its in spanish...
http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11181&sid=52f9333f71885fb5b2da9b8a74659cca#11181

[Servinio]

So I guess the only mystery left is the college of Dennis Still and Jeff Moore.
Dennis Still came from the South Alabama Jaguars while Jeff Moore is from the Loyola Marymount Lions.

[nardy]

Dennis Still came from the South Alabama Jaguars while Jeff Moore is from the Loyola Marymount Lions.

Would like to share that after leaving the Philippines, Dennis went to Argentina and Jeff gone to Mexico and they became Basketball legends at those countries. Moore was even branded as the Michael Jordan of the Mexican League.

[nardy]

Anthony do you have any idea where we can find videos of NCC's games especially that Jones Cup Championship game of theirs versus the US team.

[Cammomile]

Anthony do you have any idea where we can find videos of NCC's games especially that Jones Cup Championship game of theirs versus the US team.

Is such thing ever existed? My dad once told me of stories about that game and it would be a miracle if i could see the whole game..

[neo]

tanduay's loss is NCC's gain.

that's 1987. when jacobs and the ncc and the 3 naturalized cagers has already part ways.

and sadly, jacobs has yet to be able to speak or walk. check the philippine star. there's an article about jacobs by henson just this month (or december?).

[weward]

I love that "Flying House". That was on GMA-7. They were two of them religious cartoons movie alternating on late afternoons on weekdays. :D

i think the other one is SUPER BOOK.. hehe

naabutan ko pa yan ng bata ako..haha pag umaga mobydick at mythor ang palabas sa ch9..tapos conan the barbarian bago mag tanghali.hihihi tapos batang x sa ch2 pag hapon bago mag gabi..hahaha :D:D:D

tapos ang pumalit jan un super boink at sunny pig.:D:D:D

pero pinaka astig tlga un ng elementary nko..un blue blink..un kabayo na kulay blue..umiyak ako sa ending.nkakalungkot un ending tapos ganda pa ng music..pucha...wahaha un lang ang iniyakan kong plabas.kahit namatay kamag anak ko hindi ako umiiyak tapos dun umiyak ako..ahahaha :D:D:D:D:D

sorry for being offT...:D:D:D

trans: i hope someone convert and upload the games played by NCC..i have not seen any of their games..i am still not around during that time. :cool:

[Sakamoto]

Anthony do you have any idea where we can find videos of NCC's games especially that Jones Cup Championship game of theirs versus the US team.

i had the chance to watch the game on TV because my eldest brother is watching but i cant recall what really happened because im too young at that time(grade2). I guess the one who broadcast the game here may have the copy of the games.

One thing i remember, after they won the 1985 Jones Cup ang the fiba asia championships beating china, they were not even greeted at the airport when they came back here. Its really sad it maybe because of we have naturalized players.

[Jay P. Mercado]

One thing i remember, after they won the 1985 Jones Cup ang the fiba asia championships beating china, they were not even greeted at the airport when they came back here. Its really sad it maybe because of we have naturalized players.

One probable reason for such was how the tv broadcast showed the lack of class on the part of Ronnie Nathanielsz. Nathanielsz was the sole broadcaster of the 1985 Jones Cup and kept extolling the names of President Ferdinand Marcos and basketball project director and RP Team Manager Danding Cojuangco. He kept praising the two and giving them credit practically every single opportunity given to him.

Note that at that time, Marcos has become extremely unpopular and was reviled by his countrymen. While many watched and cheered for our national team, a lot got turned off by Nathanielsz's antics that it somehow made the championship less glittering.

On the other hand, I don't recall the 1986 ABC having been shown on TV (or was it shown on MBS-4?). The absence of a tv broadcast didn't allow us to witness how we were able to regain our ABC title last won in 1973 when we served as hosts back then. We only got to follow the developments via the newspapers and the lack of attention somehow didn't give this team the opportunity to bask in the glory of their countrymen.

Yet, despite all these, the appreciation to these players was achieved when some of them went to Seoul for the 1986 Asian Games on October. The games were televised, featuring a couple of NCC players like Caidic, Lim, Calma and Codinera. The advantage of this team was that they didn't include the two naturalized players who played in the ABC (Still and Moore) and that they were coached by Joe Lipa. It was an All-Filipino team that was embraced more by the fans. Eventually, Caidic, Lim, Calma, Codinera, Dignadice, Jarencio, Pumaren, etc. were loved by the fans when they joined the league in 1986 / 1987.

[ogre]

One thing i remember, after they (NCC) won the 1985 Jones Cup ang the fiba asia championships beating china, they were not even greeted at the airport when they came back here. Its really sad it maybe because of we have naturalized players.

Kasi back then, basketball fans mostly follow PBA games. It was mostly younger ones, college students can relate to the NCC players who were their varsity players. But NCC's fanbase grew after the Jones Cup and their PBA feat.

[Big Ticket]

One probable reason for such was how the tv broadcast showed the lack of class on the part of Ronnie Nathanielsz. Nathanielsz was the sole broadcaster of the 1985 Jones Cup and kept extolling the names of President Ferdinand Marcos and basketball project director and RP Team Manager Danding Cojuangco. He kept praising the two and giving them credit practically every single opportunity given to him.

.

when did that sri lankan and marcos' crony showed class?

[Jay P. Mercado]

when did that sri lankan and marcos' crony showed class?

Hehe...You're right BT. His lapdog stance with the Marcoses is well-documented - from the Ninoy Aquino interview of 1978 to the NAMFREL pilloring in his public program of 1986.

Another reason why the NCC team wasn't fully embraced by the public was the presence of the naturalized players. While older fans today have learned to appreciate the three after assessing what happened in the past, some of them were actually against the presence of these players in the national team.

Similarly, as what Ogre cited, the PBA was at its peak in terms of popularity. While Crispa and Toyota may have disbanded, the stock of Robert Jaworski's popularity rose by monstrous levels when he moved to Ginebra. Despite the glamour brought about by the NCC players, the popularity still emanates from the PBA. Unlike today when SMART-Gilas is being accepted by basketball fans because of the weakening popularity of the PBA.

[mon23]

Since this is all about the NCC thread, one game I saw on TV was the Northern-Magnolia Quench Plus out of town game during the '85 third conference, wherein NCC lost and Dennis Still scored only 6 points, before that I read a previous NCC game in newspapers where Still had only 3 points! during those days of high-scoring imports, it would seem laughable for an american to had those numbers.

but Still was well-liked by filipinos, I always enjoyed seeing him stop Michael Hackett from scoring, the ABC championships in '86 was shown live on TV, and I followed it on Channel 4, It was a proud moment for us, when they come home, there was a picture in Manila Bulletin President Marcos congratulating Ron Jacobs and the NCC players, a month before People Power I, the headline says "FM congratulates ABC Champs,"

[the_BuGs]

Hehe...You're right BT. His lapdog stance with the Marcoses is well-documented - from the Ninoy Aquino interview of 1978 to the NAMFREL pilloring in his public program of 1986.

Another reason why the NCC team wasn't fully embraced by the public was the presence of the naturalized players. While older fans today have learned to appreciate the three after assessing what happened in the past, some of them were actually against the presence of these players in the national team.

Similarly, as what Ogre cited, the PBA was at its peak in terms of popularity. While Crispa and Toyota may have disbanded, the stock of Robert Jaworski's popularity rose by monstrous levels when he moved to Ginebra. Despite the glamour brought about by the NCC players, the popularity still emanates from the PBA. Unlike today when SMART-Gilas is being accepted by basketball fans because of the weakening popularity of the PBA.


History Repeats by itself.... look at Smart Gilas now? not everyone knows them.... people still knows the PBE este A

[usausa]

BIG FIND ON YOUTUBE!

1986 ABC footage, 2 parts...looks mostly Samboy Lim highlights but RP team as well in the gold medal match vs. China

This is part 1...you guys can navigate where you want to go from there....and there is some 1986 Asian Games highlights of Samboy too on youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5pPu7-UGTQ&feature=related

[bhinov]

BIG FIND ON YOUTUBE!

1986 ABC footage, 2 parts...looks mostly Samboy Lim highlights but RP team as well in the gold medal match vs. China

This is part 1...you guys can navigate where you want to go from there....and there is some 1986 Asian Games highlights of Samboy too on youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5pPu7-UGTQ&feature=related

Great find usausa. I wasn't able to watch these guys live or in TV because i was born in 87. Thanks for the link. :)

[ogre]

BIG FIND ON YOUTUBE!

1986 ABC footage, 2 parts...looks mostly Samboy Lim highlights but RP team as well in the gold medal match vs. China

This is part 1...you guys can navigate where you want to go from there....and there is some 1986 Asian Games highlights of Samboy too on youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5pPu7-UGTQ&feature=related

Samboy is the epitome of a "no-form, all skill" player. Nowadays you can see a lot of "all-form, no-skill" players in the pormang PBA league.

[sergio23]

Samboy is the epitome of a "no-form, all skill" player. Nowadays you can see a lot of "all-form, no-skill" players in the pormang PBA league.

lol @ Pormang PBA League :p:p:p

[Sam (a.k.a.) Tuwid]

Since this is all about the NCC thread, one game I saw on TV was the Northern-Magnolia Quench Plus out of town game during the '85 third conference, wherein NCC lost and Dennis Still scored only 6 points, before that I read a previous NCC game in newspapers where Still had only 3 points! during those days of high-scoring imports, it would seem laughable for an american to had those numbers.

but Still was well-liked by filipinos, I always enjoyed seeing him stop Michael Hackett from scoring, the ABC championships in '86 was shown live on TV, and I followed it on Channel 4, It was a proud moment for us, when they come home, there was a picture in Manila Bulletin President Marcos congratulating Ron Jacobs and the NCC players, a month before People Power I, the headline says "FM congratulates ABC Champs,"

Just an FYI for those who are too young to remember the NCC squad of yore... Dennis Still is the macro or proto version of his "tukayo" Dennis Rodman. He played Dennis Rodman-like even before the famous Bull strutted his wares with the six-time NBA world champions, Chicago Bulls in the 90's.

Dennis Still played like he was never in the game to score but instead, only to rebound and play tough defense around the paint. In reality, he really was but a poser on offense, LOL! He is very limited in his offensive skills. He shoots duds if it is not within two feet off of the ring. Harhar! He can even out-Shaq Shaquille Oneal in the later's worst day at the free throw line. He actually might even outdud the "Dudley" (pun intended) at the stripe for that matter, no doubt about that!

One thing tho', he can thunder dunk with the best of 'em, bar none, including the chocolate thunder himself, Daryll Dawkins.

In the NCC greatest win IMHO, against USA's Golden Eagle the US' amateur "A"- team during that summer competing for the glory of the stars and stripes in the Jones Cup of mid-80's, Dennis Still never even attempted one single basket. Not one.... even a dunk on a follow up. We won tho', so no questions asked here.

By the way, Dennis Still played on one good leg the whole nine yards of that fateful night after he got injured from the semi-final game against Uruguay?, diving for a loose ball in the dying seconds of a won game. Silly move one may surmise, but it actually bore Dennis' signature play, and that is to treat each play and each moment like it'll provide the difference between winning and losing. A++ for effort for Mr. hard hat, Dennis Still.

Lastly, even during timeouts, he will find a way to change jerseys, socks, and sometimes even shoes, for he sweats a tad bit too much during the game. A bucket of sweat for the glory of a flag, frankly dear folks, not even his!

[AlYuson]

Samboy is the epitome of a "no-form, all skill" player. Nowadays you can see a lot of "all-form, no-skill" players in the pormang PBA league.

Samboy Lim was rare of a kind player..he was a pure one-on-one offensive player and the 1980s era of high-flying and exciting cagers is no longer exist.

[Jay P. Mercado]

Thanks Sam on your personal recollection of Dennis Still. I have good memories about him, and though it's not as up close and personal as yours, I'm writing this at the perspective of a fan watching the game.

What many won't be able to recall is that Dennis Still was part of the original NCC Training Team that initially arrived in the country in 1981. Still and Jeffrey Moore were eventually retained to become naturalized Filipino citizens and established their required 3-year residency in 1986 after they started settling here in 1983. Still and Moore were part of Ron Jacobs' first five in that original Training Team, alongside the 7'0 Steve Schall, small guard Eddie Joe Chavez (who eventually suited up for the Panamanian national team) and point guard Ricardo Brown (the first Fil-AM to play and win the ROY and MVP honors in the PBA). The other players were legit Fil-AM William Pearson (who played for Crispa, Shell and Great Taste in the PBA), Americans Michael Antoine, Bruce Webster, the slow-footed Steve Lingerfelter and Willie Polk, plus two homegrown talents - Frankie Lim and JB Yango.

Still was at his peak when he was here in 1981. He played his natural position, the PF slot, while backing up Schall inside. Still had to adjust to the center position in 1983 but even though he was only listed at 6'8, was effective because of his physical presence inside. Moore, on the other hand, was one of the more prolific scorers of that original training team. He was the resident blue-collar worker of that team, collaring the boards and scoring inside while playing defense against the opponent's best scorer. He also played his natural position with the training team at #3, but was forced to play PF starting in 1983. Moore was never the team's first option in offense, but if I recall it right, he was probably the team's second leading scorer behind Brown.

Still and Moore exemplified how hard work and work ethic can do in basketball. While Moore was equally talented and athletic, it was his work ethic that made him a critical factor in NCC's cause. Still, while not as talented and athletic, used his brains and brawns effectively in trying to dominate inside. I don't exactly recall Still being able to hold Michael Hackett one-on-one but it was how he ruined Manila Beer's hulking Francois Wise's game that became his signature. I recall one time during the 1985 Reinforced when Jacobs wanted to play Manila Beer in the finals in lieu of Ginebra because he felt more confident that Still can contain Wise than Hackett and the fact that he didn't want to play for a hostile crowd cheering for the Gins. While Wise is beefy and shaped like a football halfback, he was slow and lumbering and didn't have an outside game. Still, 4 inches taller than Wise, dominated him inside, blocking his shots everytime Wise tried in vain to score from inside. Hackett was more difficult to stop, not only because he was more agile than Wise, but because Hackett was equally beefy that can play with finesse. Hackett was quicker than Still, allowing him to go around Still's defense using his speed.

In that fateful game against the Golden Eagles (whose players included former NBA players Harold Pressley, Joe Wolf and Kenny Gattison, plus point guard Tommy Amaker and college standout and now ESPN writer Jay Bilas) which NCC won in OT 108-100, Still was a one-legged wonder in that game. I didn't realize he didn't even have a FGA in that game, although I was aware that he didn't score - but it only proves one thing - you don't need to score or even take an attempt to be effective. One of Jacobs' trademarks was role-playing, something that was evident to younger fans when they saw him coach the ragtag SMB team in 1997. Jacobs utilized Still for where he excelled - rebounding, intimidating, and defense. He utilized Engelland for his scoring ability. He utilized Lim for his penetrations and ability to score from outside. Note that Engelland, Caidic and Lim weren't the best defenders around - but he sacrificed this by executing the zone defense flawlessly. He allowed his opponents to beat them from the outside but made sure that the interior was locked up. This was where Still, Moore and Yves Dignadice contributed heavily.

[kerouac82]

In that fateful game against the Golden Eagles (whose players included former NBA players Harold Pressley, Joe Wolf and Kenny Gattison, plus point guard Tommy Amaker and college standout and now ESPN writer Jay Bilas) which NCC won in OT 108-100, Still was a one-legged wonder in that game.

The same Tommy Amaker who coached at Michigan and now coaches at Harvard? That Golden Eagles team was strong indeed. Joe Wolf had an 11-year NBA career; I remember seeing him playing the Chicago Bulls when I was in high school. Kenny Gattison was Old Dominion's all-time rebound leader.

[Sam (a.k.a.) Tuwid]

I remember reading that in exchanges of chit-chats, friendly banters, and what have yous between the Americans in our NCC team and some players of the Golden Eagle team, they found out about an NCC team losing by the narrowest of margin to the Nike All Star team. At that time the Nike All Stars, was the other US team of amateur players representing them in the international field.

Somehow after that exchange, they felt somewhat unnerved by that info, probably because they might have considered their team's line-up a bit inferior to that of the all stars. During that period, this Nike All stars by the way, was one of the teams that played against us in the just concluded World Interclub tournament in Gerona, Spain. Details are in full on these pages thanks to the excellent posters here at Interbasket. (Joey Protacio M. surely know the juicy details of this one)

This feeling was all too evident during the course of their game against us. They somehow found it difficult to hold their ground, all the while when we have matched theirs stride by stride, by twists and by turns, even managed to outgun them in spots here and there, until they finally yielded to the immovable will of the NCC team. The Northern Consolidated Cement team just knew how to win, their mentor made sure of that, and their patron ingrained it in them.

They truly were a bunch of determined young men playing waaay out of their Addidas's to represent the bandila, the best they can, and the only way they knew how... every possession counts!

Sans the pa-kyut-kyut style of today... they did pretty good didn't they?

Oh well, if our present team finally get it, that this is greater than any individual pursuits and their games are not just "wins or losses" without pride of a nation at stake, then they too will.

[Jay P. Mercado]

Forgot to add the name Kevin Henderson in the list of players that suited up for the Flying Eagles of the United States in the 1985 Jones Cup.

Arthur "Chip" Engelland, who would have been naturalized in 1987 after establishing his 3-year residency in the Philippines, erupted for 43 points in that game if I'm not mistaken. Engelland probably had at least 8 trifectas in that game but got adequate support from Allan Caidic and Samboy Lim who scored in the low twenties. Hector Calma didn't score much but was very effective in quarterbacking against Amaker. Franz Pumaren scored a couple of treys to help loosen up the interior defense of the Americans.

Finally, the Flying Eagles were mentored by no less than legendary coach Gene Keady of Purdue University...

[mon23]

Still and Moore exemplified how hard work and work ethic can do in basketball. While Moore was equally talented and athletic, it was his work ethic that made him a critical factor in NCC's cause. Still, while not as talented and athletic, used his brains and brawns effectively in trying to dominate inside. I don't exactly recall Still being able to hold Michael Hackett one-on-one but it was how he ruined Manila Beer's hulking Francois Wise's game that became his signature. I recall one time during the 1985 Reinforced when Jacobs wanted to play Manila Beer in the finals in lieu of Ginebra because he felt more confident that Still can contain Wise than Hackett and the fact that he didn't want to play for a hostile crowd cheering for the Gins. While Wise is beefy and shaped like a football halfback, he was slow and lumbering and didn't have an outside game. Still, 4 inches taller than Wise, dominated him inside, blocking his shots everytime Wise tried in vain to score from inside. Hackett was more difficult to stop, not only because he was more agile than Wise, but because Hackett was equally beefy that can play with finesse. Hackett was quicker than Still, allowing him to go around Still's defense using his speed.



But I think Still was more successful than any other import or local players in containing Michael Hackett and can make him look bad, at least for a while, I remember one game NCC beat Ginebra and Hackett was held down by Still to only 38 points, coming off a 76-point performance in leading Ginebra to a win over Wise-led Manila Beer, Hackett was indeed so unstoppable inside the paint and local defenders were puzzled on how to stop him from scoring, there was even a picture on the newspapers I saw that time posturizing Hackett's dominance in the PBA scoring off Still, I agree Ginebra might have won their first title earlier had they played NCC in the finals, Jacobs was so worried about playing Ginebra than Manila Beer.

[mon23]

Just an FYI for those who are too young to remember the NCC squad of yore... Dennis Still is the macro or proto version of his "tukayo" Dennis Rodman. He played Dennis Rodman-like even before the famous Bull strutted his wares with the six-time NBA world champions, Chicago Bulls in the 90's.

Dennis Still played like he was never in the game to score but instead, only to rebound and play tough defense around the paint. In reality, he really was but a poser on offense, LOL! He is very limited in his offensive skills. He shoots duds if it is not within two feet off of the ring. Harhar! He can even out-Shaq Shaquille Oneal in the later's worst day at the free throw line. He actually might even outdud the "Dudley" (pun intended) at the stripe for that matter, no doubt about that!

One thing tho', he can thunder dunk with the best of 'em, bar none, including the chocolate thunder himself, Daryll Dawkins.

In the NCC greatest win IMHO, against USA's Golden Eagle the US' amateur "A"- team during that summer competing for the glory of the stars and stripes in the Jones Cup of mid-80's, Dennis Still never even attempted one single basket. Not one.... even a dunk on a follow up. We won tho', so no questions asked here.

By the way, Dennis Still played on one good leg the whole nine yards of that fateful night after he got injured from the semi-final game against Uruguay?, diving for a loose ball in the dying seconds of a won game. Silly move one may surmise, but it actually bore Dennis' signature play, and that is to treat each play and each moment like it'll provide the difference between winning and losing. A++ for effort for Mr. hard hat, Dennis Still.

Lastly, even during timeouts, he will find a way to change jerseys, socks, and sometimes even shoes, for he sweats a tad bit too much during the game. A bucket of sweat for the glory of a flag, frankly dear folks, not even his!

Although I wasn't able to follow their Jones Cup victory over USA's Golden Eagles, my favorite Still moment was the ABC tournament in 1986, in their semifinals game against South Korea, Dennis Still save the day for us with a follow up shot when the sharp-shooting Koreans scores off a steal from Hec Calma and came within 2 points, while the footage of the RP-China match shows more of Samboy Lim highlights in that game, Still would oftentimes bailed the team out of trouble with follow up stuffs, without him, we might have lost the ABC championships, Dennis Still's presence made the difference for the RP team.

In the PBA, the Alley-hoop must have been made "famous" by Still, I recall NCC guards Hector Calma and Franz Pumaren used to do that with perfection with Still as the recipient, yes, Still is not interested in scoring, he is there for a rebound and plays tough defense.

[bolabasket]

any recent photo of Dennis Still, Jeff Moore and Chip Engelland?

[Jay P. Mercado]

But I think Still was more successful than any other import or local players in containing Michael Hackett and can make him look bad, at least for a while, I remember one game NCC beat Ginebra and Hackett was held down by Still to only 38 points, coming off a 76-point performance in leading Ginebra to a win over Wise-led Manila Beer, Hackett was indeed so unstoppable inside the paint and local defenders were puzzled on how to stop him from scoring, there was even a picture on the newspapers I saw that time posturizing Hackett's dominance in the PBA scoring off Still, I agree Ginebra might have won their first title earlier had they played NCC in the finals, Jacobs was so worried about playing Ginebra than Manila Beer.

Agree. If there was one player back then capable of stopping Hackett defensively, it would have been Dennis Still. Note that imports had a height limit back then at no taller than 6'5, which meant Still was at least 3" taller than Hackett. And even if Francois Wise of Manila Beer was nearly 280 lbs, he still couldn't contain Hackett because the latter used his speed. Against Still, he was able to use his speed but the latter's length and beef were capable of catching up with him. Besides, Ron Jacobs was a noted defensive coach so he was capable of making adjustments just in case Hackett did run rings around Still. He would have gotten Jeff Moore to provide the last line of defense inside the paint in case Still gets lost in the shuffle.

Would Ginebra have won the 1985 Reinforced had they entered the Finals instead of Manila Beer? Hard to speculate but one thing I'm sure of - Ginebra was probably the only team capable of beating NCC back then. Ginebra's contra-pelo (foil) was Great Taste, and you could see the great difficulty Jaworski's troops had to go through to stop the Coffeemakers who were veteran-laden. NCC was a group of young players and while extremely talented, disciplined and organized, were still capable of getting ruffled by the hostile crowd that Ginebra brought. Note how NCC lost a "won" game against Ginebra in the 1984 Reinforced when, after leading by 15 points with around 7 minutes left in the ballgame, Robert Jaworski, after getting a wayward elbow that hit his lip in the 2nd Quarter and requiring him to to go to the nearby Medical City for seven stitches, returned to the game in a huge frenzy that stunned the NCC players. No amount of effort or timeout on Jacobs' part could restore the same mental discipline enforced by Jacobs on his players as Jaworski's return simply energized the crowd. Ginebra won that game by two points.

[nardy]

any recent photo of Dennis Still, Jeff Moore and Chip Engelland?

http://www.nba.com/media/spurs/engelland_200x300.jpg
Chip Engelland as the Assistant Coach of the San Antonio Spurs.

8xeIZL9ka-c
Old School Basketball Training With Dennis Still at Lenexa, Kansas.

http://www.puertovallarta.net/images/events/sports-classic-2006/DSC_1767.jpg
Jeff Moore scoring in a Masters (over 45) division game at Pueta Vallarta, Mexico where he retired after becoming a legend at the Liga Nacional de Baloncesto Profesional (LNBP) which is the Mexican Premier Basketball League.

[capitantiago]

Note how NCC lost a "won" game against Ginebra in the 1984 Reinforced when, after leading by 15 points with around 7 minutes left in the ballgame, Robert Jaworski, after getting a wayward elbow that hit his lip in the 2nd Quarter and requiring him to to go to the nearby Medical City for seven stitches, returned to the game in a huge frenzy that stunned the NCC players. No amount of effort or timeout on Jacobs' part could restore the same mental discipline enforced by Jacobs on his players as Jaworski's return simply energized the crowd. Ginebra won that game by two points.

shades of Willis Reed in the 1970 NBA Finals.

[mon23]

On November 28, 1985 - Northern defeated Manila Beer, 138-106 in Game 4 to win the PBA Reinforced Conference crown via four-game sweep, the first ever 4-0 romp in a Best-of-Seven series. Jeff Moore scored 41 points in the title-clinching series while Dennis Still added 24.

Having grew up following the NCC, this is how they fared in the 1985 PBA 3rd Conference.

Eliminations (L-Loss, W-Win)
(0-1) L Ginebra, 106-107
(1-1) W Manila Beer, 106-94
(2-1) W Tanduay, 110-101
(2-2) L Shell, 104-106
(3-2) W Great Taste, 133-120
(3-3) L Magnolia, 90-98
(4-3) W Ginebra, 113-108
(5-3) W Shell, 147-111
(5-4) L Magnolia, 96-106
(6-4) W Great Taste, 99-97
(7-4) W Tanduay, 115-96
(7-5) L Manila Beer, 121-126

NCC Loss to Ginebra, 96-99 in the KO game, a three-way tie for 2nd place (7-5) along with Magnolia, to determined the other outright semis qualifier, Ginebra joined Manila Beer (9-3) in the semis with a victory over Magnolia.

Quarterfinals:
(7-6) L Magnolia, 93-105
(8-6) W Great Taste, 132-106
(9-6) W Tanduay, 129-99

Semifinals:
(0-1) L Ginebra, 97-101
(0-2) L Great Taste, 97-102
(1-2) W Manila Beer, 130-95
(2-2) W Ginebra, 115-108
(3-2) W Great Taste, 125-102
(3-3) L Manila Beer, 93-99

NCC defeated Great Taste, 123-107 to make it to the Finals.

How the Finals went:
Game 1: Northern 139 Manila Beer 102
Game 2: Northern 133 Manila Beer 117
Game 3: Northern 130 Manila Beer 113
Game 4: Northern 138 Manila Beer 106

Most of the NCC elimination round games were held in the first game and on a delayed basis, therefore, I followed it only on newspapers, too bad I kept none of it, only twice in the eliminations were NCC matches in the main game, both in the 2nd round vs Ginebra, and Manila Beer. Northern's overall record in winning the PBA Reinforced title are 17 wins, 10 losses.

[donmar]

On November 28, 1985 - Northern defeated Manila Beer, 138-106 in Game 4 to win the PBA Reinforced Conference crown via four-game sweep, the first ever 4-0 romp in a Best-of-Seven series. Jeff Moore scored 41 points in the title-clinching series while Dennis Still added 24.

Having grew up following the NCC, this is how they fared in the 1985 PBA 3rd Conference.

Eliminations (L-Loss, W-Win)
(0-1) L Ginebra, 106-107
(1-1) W Manila Beer, 106-94
(2-1) W Tanduay, 110-101
(2-2) L Shell, 104-106
(3-2) W Great Taste, 133-120
(3-3) L Magnolia, 90-98
(4-3) W Ginebra, 113-108
(5-3) W Shell, 147-111
(5-4) L Magnolia, 96-106
(6-4) W Great Taste, 99-97
(7-4) W Tanduay, 115-96
(7-5) L Manila Beer, 121-126

NCC Loss to Ginebra, 96-99 in the KO game, a three-way tie for 2nd place (7-5) along with Magnolia, to determined the other outright semis qualifier, Ginebra joined Manila Beer (9-3) in the semis with a victory over Magnolia.

Quarterfinals:
(7-6) L Magnolia, 93-105
(8-6) W Great Taste, 132-106
(9-6) W Tanduay, 129-99

Semifinals:
(0-1) L Ginebra, 97-101
(0-2) L Great Taste, 97-102
(1-2) W Manila Beer, 130-95
(2-2) W Ginebra, 115-108
(3-2) W Great Taste, 125-102
(3-3) L Manila Beer, 93-99

NCC defeated Great Taste, 123-107 to make it to the Finals.

How the Finals went:
Game 1: Northern 139 Manila Beer 102
Game 2: Northern 133 Manila Beer 117
Game 3: Northern 130 Manila Beer 113
Game 4: Northern 138 Manila Beer 106

Most of the NCC elimination round games were held in the first game and on a delayed basis, therefore, I followed it only on newspapers, too bad I kept none of it, only twice in the eliminations were NCC matches in the main game, both in the 2nd round vs Ginebra, and Manila Beer. Northern's overall record in winning the PBA Reinforced title are 17 wins, 10 losses.

Nice:)... keep it up!:)

[Jay P. Mercado]

How the Finals went:
Game 1: Northern 139 Manila Beer 102
Game 2: Northern 133 Manila Beer 117
Game 3: Northern 130 Manila Beer 113
Game 4: Northern 138 Manila Beer 106



I have always said that the most lopsided Finals series in PBA history wasn't that of Swift versus 7/Up in the 1992 Reinforced (featuring Tony Harris of the Mighty Meaties and Delano Demps of the Uncolas), which saw the RFM franchise sweep 7/Up. Instead, it should be this finals between Northern Cement and Manila Beer. The average winning margin for this Finals series alone was 25.5 points, a total beating.

I recall this Finals very well - Francois Wise was the Brewmasters' leading offensive player, but got shellacked by Dennis Still as his point production significantly dipped to the 20's from his average of 40+ ppg. Ron Jacobs capitalized on Manila Beer's very weak point guard lineup, which had trouble bringing down the ball. Their point guards were Fritz Gaston and Tim Coloso. NCC employed a stiffening full court defense that forced several turnovers and Manila Beer didn't know what to do as they can't execute. Abet Guidaben couldn't deliver as he can't get feeds from his sweet spot. Atoy Co can't find his game as there was always a defender's hand in his face everytime he went for a shot.

Perhaps it would have been different had NCC faced Ginebra in the Finals. Note NCC's records against all the teams in this conference:

Against:

Shell - 1 win, 1 loss
Ginebra - 2 wins, 2 losses
Great Taste - 5 wins, 1 loss
Manila Beer - 2 wins, 2 losses (not counting the Finals)
Magnolia - 0 win, 3 losses
Tanduay - 3 wins, 0 losses

It may surprise everyone that NCC lost ALL their games against Magnolia. Note that Magnolia was a ragtag team back then but had Norman Black (if I'm not mistaken as their reinforcement). It's not a surprise since NCC's sister team is Magnolia, so somehow, they may not exactly have wanted to beat their sister team in the PBA.

They were dominant against the other teams except for Manila Beer and Ginebra, where they wound up with a common slate. Ginebra would probably have done better, although I'm not saying it would have changed the series outcome, as the intangibles that Ginebra had were the worst fears of Ron Jacobs. These were: fighting spirit, crowd support, physical and rugged defense - all characteristics that would have affected the mental game of the young NCC stars. Ginebra was also very difficult to scout, and since Jacobs was the master at scouting for their opponent's weaknesses, it practically became irrelevant with Ginebra. The Gins didn't have routine set plays to work on - and mostly relied on the old-school offense of "taking the shot when you're open." Jaworski was also a master at situational coaching - a particular element that cannot be scouted by Jacobs.

[mon23]

Sir Jay, I do smell something fishy on why NCC always lost to sister team Magnolia, its kinda weird that time on how they can't beat Norman Black's charges, in fact when I followed the PBA starting the 3rd conference of 1985, the only time I remember NCC winning over Magnolia was in some sort of an exhibition game.

[Jay P. Mercado]

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist but it's pretty obvious that there was no way for Magnolia to beat NCC in all their games for that conference. Even with a young, healthy, and prolific Norman Black in tow. I submit, Black was definitely at his best performance during those years that even Dennis Still, who stood 3 inches taller than him and was a defensive mastadon himself, found difficulty containing.

But Magnolia, who may have lived and died with Black around, wasn't exactly a deep team. They actually had a team that didn't have superstars, but more like role players. I recall Allan Abelgas, Joey Loyzaga, Dante Gonzalgo, Rudy Distrito, Evalson Valencia, among others. Abe King, the player that Gold Eagle Beer (the previous name of Magnolia) built its team around the season before, was already with Great Taste by then. It's just hard to imagine NCC struggling and even losing against the Ice Cream Makers.

[splitzapper]

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist but it's pretty obvious that there was no way for Magnolia to beat NCC in all their games for that conference. Even with a young, healthy, and prolific Norman Black in tow. I submit, Black was definitely at his best performance during those years that even Dennis Still, who stood 3 inches taller than him and was a defensive mastadon himself, found difficulty containing.

But Magnolia, who may have lived and died with Black around, wasn't exactly a deep team. They actually had a team that didn't have superstars, but more like role players. I recall Allan Abelgas, Joey Loyzaga, Dante Gonzalgo, Rudy Distrito, Evalson Valencia, among others. Abe King, the player that Gold Eagle Beer (the previous name of Magnolia) built its team around the season before, was already with Great Taste by then. It's just hard to imagine NCC struggling and even losing against the Ice Cream Makers.

Hello there Jay. DO you have any idea who owns the copyright of footages from this era? It would be nice if we can view some of it if it still exists.

thanks

[Jay P. Mercado]

A lot of these tapes are still with Vintage Enterprises of Carlos Velez as they were the coveror of the PBA Games during this period. A good friend of mine recently secured the exclusive rights to air past PBA games in the Middle East - a sprinkling of games in the 80's and mostly in the 90's and up to 2007. I was tasked upon to do the trivia to be featured in the games (at least 6 per quarter) and his company has the rights to distribute these to those willing to air these in establishments, etc.

It's unfortunate though that most of these tapes cannot be read anymore, or have been re-used (film over film), etc. The games of the 70's and early 80's, I really doubt if these are still available. Some of them might be with Channel 4 or Channel 9.

[nardy]

from Twitter:

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1159390589/Mico_in_Araneta_01_normal.jpg
micohalili (http://twitter.com/#%21/micohalili) Mico Halili

so it's pseudo-official, the famed NBA Euro Step is what Elmer Reyes was already doing in the PBA 20 yrs ago http://bit.ly/9og8Rg #PBA (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23PBA)
5 hours ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/micohalili/status/5455081575030784)

[mon23]

We should help out to find and restore old PBA games, I truly regret not being able to record most of the games during the 80s.

[kaiziken_pinas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhXHyPYIEnE

you will love this.

I'm posting the link rather than embedding it, just to add suspense. Trust me guys, you will love it. This was taken in 1985. Blurry vid though.

Thanks to basketbola80 for uploading this vintage vid ^^