Will the Best Team Win?

[mvblair]

Day One is over and people are already complaining about referees and free throws and no calls. I've got a quick question: do you think the best team will win the tournament?

I think the best, most deserving team usually wins most games (well, games that are not Game 6 of the NBA Western Conference Finals). In 2002 and 2004, Team USA was not the best. We were clearly manhandled by other teams and we deserved to go home with the Bronze.

In this tournament, right now, I sincerely believe that the best team will win, just like in 2002 and 2004. If the US loses, they will lose to a better team, as they did in previous years. If they win, they will win against an inferior team.

At the end of a ball game, there are always excuses both ways. People wine and complain and cry about the game, the crowd, the whistle. It's natural. For just once, I hope that we can all accept the best team winning. Unless there is something completely out of the ordinairy, I will respect the winning teams without complaining, as I have in the past when the US lost fairly. Anybody else want to do the same this time around?

[DarkoMVP]

It's quite likely not. Even if there was a team which is the best and can beat any other team 2/3 of the time, 3 single elimination games means they will only have an 8/27 chance of winning.

[L8DBACK]

It's quite likely not. Even if there was a team which is the best and can beat any other team 2/3 of the time, 3 single elimination games means they will only have an 8/27 chance of winning.

The thing that the USA Team will have is the support of the Chinese fans and "home court" advantage!

[Picek]

The thing that the USA Team will have is the support of the Chinese fans and "home court" advantage!
we already learned in last two years that Spain plays better while playing "away"..
USA is not a team and shouldn't be called like that, they are a bunch of individualists..

[Papaloukas]

we already learned in last two years that Spain plays better while playing "away"..
USA is not a team and shouldn't be called like that, they are a bunch of individualists..

China - 12 assists

USA - 17 assists

What were you saying?

[Beva]

China - 12 assists

USA - 17 assists

What were you saying?

Yeah, and most of those assists were in counter-attack when 3 Americans face 1 Chinese guy... But that's not the team play, that's pure attraction...

Looks like they wanted to humiliate the Chinese, but winning +31 with that kind of attitude, China looks like the winner for me...

For example, the original 'Dream Team' 1992 had a win +32 against Croatia, and that's as closest as someone get to them... And Croatia had Dražen, Kukoč, Rađa, Vranković, Tabak... I think this American team doesn't deserve to be called the 'Dream Team 2'...

[Gyroscope]

We have to define what we mean by "best team". Best team of the tournament? Of the season? Or the best team in the individual game (i.e. the final)?

For one reason or another, a team might totally collapse in the final, despite a solid tournament, and lose to a team that was average during the tournament but happened to be in top form (or just lucky) on that day.

All in all, I think that the best team wins, generally speaking, but I'd prefer to say it like this: The two best teams meet in the final; one of them wins

[Papaloukas]

Yeah, and most of those assists were in counter-attack when 3 Americans face 1 Chinese guy... But that's not the team play, that's pure attraction...

i saw excellent crisp passing by the USA. If Kobe could have knocked down alot of open 3 point looks he had, the assist disparity would have been more apparent.


Looks like they wanted to humiliate the Chinese, but winning +31 with that kind of attitude, China looks like the winner for me...

Yeah we tried to humiliate the Chinese by clearing our bench in the 3rd. :rolleyes: Unlike the Rubio who was trying to hit half court threes at the buzzer.


For example, the original 'Dream Team' 1992 had a win +32 against Croatia, and that's as closest as someone get to them... And Croatia had Dražen, Kukoč, Rađa, Vranković, Tabak... I think this American team doesn't deserve to be called the 'Dream Team 2'...

Nobody is calling this team the Dream Team 2. Its nickname so far has been the redeem team. The Dream Team of 92 didnt have to face near the competition this team does.

[Genjuro]

We have to define what we mean by "best team". Best team of the tournament? Of the season? Or the best team in the individual game (i.e. the final)?
That's easy to answer. Of course the best team is Greece.

And to answer mvblair question, probably not.

[Phantim3dx]

never was called the dream team, as theyve been publicizing it, theyve een known as the redeem team


Yeah, and most of those assists were in counter-attack when 3 Americans face 1 Chinese guy... But that's not the team play, that's pure attraction...

Looks like they wanted to humiliate the Chinese, but winning +31 with that kind of attitude, China looks like the winner for me...

For example, the original 'Dream Team' 1992 had a win +32 against Croatia, and that's as closest as someone get to them... And Croatia had Dražen, Kukoč, Rađa, Vranković, Tabak... I think this American team doesn't deserve to be called the 'Dream Team 2'...

[L8DBACK]

we already learned in last two years that Spain plays better while playing "away"..
USA is not a team and shouldn't be called like that, they are a bunch of individualists..

You must have better coaching knowledge than Coach K! Seek help, your USA Deranged Syndrome is affecting your ability to think clearly:rolleyes: :D
When is the last time Spain played against the USA Team? Have they defeated the USA Team yet??

[KrisPen]

When is the last time Spain played against the USA Team? Have they defeated the USA Team yet??

5th/6th Place Finals: Spain 81, USA 75 http://www.usabasketball.com/seniormen/archive/2002_mwc_schedule.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6SN7JyDDyw

The Last time played against the USA Team was in 2004 and USA won...

[sime0n]

It's quite likely not. Even if there was a team which is the best and can beat any other team 2/3 of the time, 3 single elimination games means they will only have an 8/27 chance of winning.

that's interesting. do you think the USA would only win 2/3 times against these teams? In in the quarterfinals i think the USA would win 6/7 times. In the semifinals usa would win 4/5 times. Maybe in the championship 3/4 times.

This gives them a 50% chance of winning. Right now the oddsmakers are saying that usa's odds are 5:1..meaning if you bet 5 dollars and they win the gold you can win 1 dollar. I'm not sure if thats called 5:1 or 1:5

[EverGreen]

For example, the original 'Dream Team' 1992 had a win +32 against Croatia, and that's as closest as someone get to them... And Croatia had Dražen, Kukoč, Rađa, Vranković, Tabak... I think this American team doesn't deserve to be called the 'Dream Team 2'...

It's a shame that the 1992 Jugoslavia Team (in Rome) never got to face the Dream Team. The Croatian team you name had a fantastic 5 but no help from the bench.

[JGX]

The Last time played against the USA Team was in 2004 and USA won...

Teamwork trivia question--how many assists did Spain have in that game? Remember they scored 94 points.

[g.g]

That's easy to answer. Of course the best team is Greece.

And to answer mvblair question, probably not.greece has lost fair and square to Spain so for the moment cannot be the best team neither anybody can claim that. If in two weeks Greece does win against them in the semis or final is another story, but not today.

[rikhardur]

Teamwork trivia question--how many assists did Spain have in that game? Remember they scored 94 points.
Spain - 3 (!)
USA - 16

[DarkoMVP]

that's interesting. do you think the USA would only win 2/3 times against these teams? In in the quarterfinals i think the USA would win 6/7 times. In the semifinals usa would win 4/5 times. Maybe in the championship 3/4 times.

This gives them a 50% chance of winning. Right now the oddsmakers are saying that usa's odds are 5:1..meaning if you bet 5 dollars and they win the gold you can win 1 dollar. I'm not sure if thats called 5:1 or 1:5
It depends. If they play Argentina, then Greece, then Spain, maybe so, but if they play Croatia or Russia in the quarterfinals, that should be easier (which is not to say Argentina is better than those teams, just more dangerous for an upset, I think).

[mvblair]

We have to define what we mean by "best team". Best team of the tournament? Of the season? Or the best team in the individual game (i.e. the final)?`Thank you for responding to the actual topic, my Templar friend.

I cannot define "best team." I don't think anybody can. I probably should have asked do you think the deserving squad will win the tournament?

In some cases, such as Atlanta '96, the best squad was clearly the USA even though they were a collection of individuals. Sometimes, as much as basketball purists like me hate to admit it, superb individual athletes can beat well-oiled machines.

For one reason or another, a team might totally collapse in the final, despite a solid tournament, and lose to a team that was average during the tournament but happened to be in top form (or just lucky) on that day. True. That happens from time to time and we all know when that happens.

All in all, I think that the best team wins, generally speaking, but I'd prefer to say it like this: The two best teams meet in the final; one of them wins Yes, I think that's a good way of looking at it.

USA is not a team and shouldn't be called like that, they are a bunch of individualists.. Picek, if the US wins, will we have to admit then that individualists are better than "teams"?



I guess with this thread I wanted to create a movement whereby we would all agree to respect the winner of the tournament if the games are (more or less) fairly officiated.

[Dtown]

All in all, I think that the best team wins, generally speaking, but I'd prefer to say it like this: The two best teams meet in the final; one of them wins

I think this is the best we can hope for, and for once I think it will happen. When was the last time there was a close gold medal final (within ten points of each other)

[g.g]

I think this is the best we can hope for, and for once I think it will happen. When was the last time there was a close gold medal final (within ten points of each other)well two years ago the two BEST teams play in the final. USA did not made the final because OBVIOUSLY WAS NOT THE BEST NEITHER THE SECOND BEST TEAM. Please do not try to undermine the achievement of neither Spain or Greece in 2006. Its UNEXCEPTABLE. After all USA did play in the semis and did proved to the whole bb world that the were not good enough.

[mvblair]

Good analysis by achinet from another discussion (http://forums.interbasket.net/showthread.php?p=193748&posted=1#post193748)that pertains to this topic:


It's amazing to read coments like...Spain was no better than Grece, if not were the FT, Inside Players, % in 3s, rebounds...But, that is why a team is better than other. Achinet, you have been following basketball long enough to know that these types of comments will come after every game. When Team USA lost, we said the same things. If Team USA loses, our opponents will say the same thing too.

[mvblair]

well two years ago the two BEST teams play in the final. USA did not made the final because OBVIOUSLY WAS NOT THE BEST NEITHER THE SECOND BEST TEAM. Please do not try to undermine the achievement of neither Spain or Greece in 2006. Its UNEXCEPTABLE. After all USA did play in the semis and did proved to the whole bb world that the were not good enough.GG, I don't think he was trying to undermine Greece or Spain. I can't speak for Dtown, but I think most Americans accept that we were clearly not the best team in Athens or Tokyo.

[g.g]

GG, I don't think he was trying to undermine Greece or Spain. I can't speak for Dtown, but I think most Americans accept that we were clearly not the best team in Athens or Tokyo.mvblair, by putting "and for once I think it will happen" it certainly undermines previous achievers. :(

[Dtown]

mvblair, by putting "and for once I think it will happen" it certainly undermines previous achievers. :(

My apologies, I was more referring to the gold medal games not being close, than saying the US was the second best team in 06. Greece took us out fair and square, but Spain was the class of the tournament.

[g.g]

My apologies, I was more referring to the gold medal games not being close, than saying the US was the second best team. Greece took us out fair and square, but Spain was the class of the tournament.Apologies excepted;)

[ricodgame]

GROUP A
1 - USA
2 - SPAIN
3 - GREECE
4 - CHINA
5 - GERMANY
6 - ANGOLA

GROUP B
1 - LITHUANIA
2 - ARGENTINA
3 - CROATIA
4 - RUSSIA
5 - IRAN
6 - AUSTRALIA

just my guess