How would Phil Jackson fair as a coach in the international stage?
Phil Jackson is considered the best coach in the history of the game. He has won multiple championships, he has coached his team to 12 Finals appearances. His coaching techniques are out of this world (of course, credit should still be given to his long serving assistant - Tex Winters), his coaching philosophies are adapted by young coaches and his mere presence on the court is enough to uplift his players to another level.
Enough of that, now let's go straight to the point of this thread: How would Phil Jackson fair as a coach in the international stage?
As many of us here know, the international game and the NBA are two different worlds. They have different rules, different schedules, different types of successful teams, different referees, different arena atmosphere ... and the list goes on.
Scenario 1: If Phil Jackson accepted the role as coach of Team USA for this year's World Championships and the next Olympics in London. How well do you think he'd go?
Scenario 2: Let's imagine Phil decides to coach an international powerhouse NT from either Europe or Latin America. Would he be able to upstage the other powerhouses including the USA?
Scenario 3: Phil decides to go domestically overseas to a big Euroleague club either in Spain's ACB or Italy's Lega A. Would he be able to win multiple championships?
Scenario 4: The Zen Master takes the ultimate test and goes to a basketball club where hardly anyone in the organisation, including the players speak English: e.g. a club in China's CBA or Japan's domestic competition. Would he be able to still communicate his basketball tactics and philosophies?
"No hay poder en el mundo que pueda cambiar el destino"
-El Padrino
Originally Posted by Saskibaloia
Situation 1: impossible sine Coach K was already named
Situation 2: I think he would need time. He needs to be around the team the whole year, as much as humanly possible. That might mean he cant be in the NBA.
Situation 3: It would take Phil a few years to build up. He needs the right individual star and a great supporting cast, eg. MJ and Scottie with Longley, Rodman, Kukoc and Kobe and Shaq helped by Harper, Fisher, Gasol (time frame out of whack I know)
Situation 4: It's feasible. I think players have enough respect for what he has accomplished so they would try to figure out what he is teaching and I think Phil would try his best to communicate.
The thing we have to keep in mind is Phil Jackson runs a very meticulous offense (aka the Triangle). It takes time to not only put in but for players to understand and play well using it. It also requires a talented individual player who can create his own shot and can consistently hit (MJ, Kobe). I think the only way Phil leaves the NBA for any job, NT or club, is a ton of money, more than the NBA. And he needs to have the right situation so he an have the fastest time and chance to win. I do not think Phil would waste his time coaching Panama or Saudi Arabia or Greece for that matter because they dont have high talent level and economic situation in Greee is a trainwreck.
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Statistics Wish List:
1990 Asian Games -in Beijing, CHN
1991 Pan Am Games -in Havana, CUB
1991 South American Championships -in Valencia, VEN
1991 Oceania Championship -in NZ
1991 Asian Basketball Championship -in Kobe, JPN
1992 African Basketball Championship -in Cairo, EGY
1992 Euro Olympic Basketball Tournament -in Spain
Please note to any visitor or poster that this topic is 100% hypothetical and that I am aware that Phil Jackson would never leave the NBA but out of fun le'ts just say he did.
"No hay poder en el mundo que pueda cambiar el destino"
-El Padrino
Jackson's success as a coach has depended a lot on individual talent (star players). If he went to Europe to coach, I don't think he would have that same success. Not because he wouldn't have the players to carry a team like Jordan or Shaq but because he would be asking of something that's unheard of in European basketball. That would be "winning games and championships with individuals" rather than with team play. I do think he's a great strategist and player coach, just not a great coach when it comes to the team game which is what European basketball is based on.
Internationally, he could have great success IF he coached say Argentina or Germany who both have star players in the NBA. Specifically, I think he would like the task of coaching Argentina since he knows a lot about Giniboli's game from the Shaq-Kobe era. It also doesn't hurt that Argentina has beaten USA before, while also winning gold six years ago.
Last edited by Franz; 03-29-2010 at 03:33 PM.
dont think he would have any succestriangle offence wouldnt work in europe
Depends who he gets on his team.
Depends who is on the U.S. team.
[QUOTE=Saskibaloia;407948]Scenario 3: Phil decides to go domestically overseas to a big Euroleague club either in Spain's ACB or Italy's Lega A. Would he be able to win multiple championships?[/QUOT4E]
It all depends on how he would adapt to the Euro style and how the players would adapt to him.
Others can, why not him. Just get good translators.
few specials worked for cibona last yeardont think he would have any succes
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I disagree. I've watched Phil Jackson's teams for years and the triangle offense is highly predictated on team play that uses individual strengths, as does every team system. It works by spreading the offense in a three player triangular pattern (any three players/positions) where if option 1 (usually a post player) is cut off or defended, then the ball rotates to option 2 or 3 or rotates back to 1 (or rotates back and forth between the three until a shot is open), often resulting in some form of backdoor pick & roll/screen, mid-range shot, or kick-out for a three point shot, depending on the offensive set. Granted, Jackson does use some isolation plays for his star players, but in theory, this is how his offense is suppose to work. The best combinations were often...
(1) FIRST SCORING OPTION/PASSER or PICK & ROLL
(2) SECOND SCORING OPTION
(3) THIRD SCORING OPTION
BULLS: 1991-1998
(1) Longley/Wennington/Perdue/Cartwright/Grant (2)Jordan/Pippen (3) Harper/Armstrong/Daley (post to slash or cut or mid-range)
(1) Longley/Wennington/Perdue/Cartwright/Grant (2)Jordan/Pippen
(3) Hodges/Kerr/Armstrong/Paxson (post to slash or cut or three point shot)
LAKERS: 2000-present
(1) O'Neal/Grant/Gasol/Odem/Bynum (2) Bryant (3) Fox/Rice/Fisher/George/Walton (post to slash or cut or mid-range)
(1) O'Neal/Grant/Gasol/Odem/Bynum (2) Bryant (3) Rice/Horry/Shaw/Fisher/Vujacic
(post to slash or cut or three point shot)
The strength of the triangle is that it creates multiple scoring options that keeps the defense off balance. The downside is that in order for it to be successful you need great guard/forward play and decent post players who make great decisions. And it also takes a while to impliment because of the team chemistry needed for it to work effectively.
I've heard people argue that Phil Jackson owes his success to the players that played for him (O'Neal, Gasol, Bryant, Jordan, Pippen). Sure, these are some of the greatest players in basketball history, so certainly their greatness deserves 80% of the credit. There's no question if Jackson were coaching lesser players his winning percentage would be far less. But Jackson's ability to manage personalities and get superstar players to buy into his system is nothing short of remarkable. He deserves at least that much credit. Fair or unfair, the Bulls or Lakers didn't win titles until he replaced his predessors (Doug Collins in Chicago and Del Harris in L.A.) who worked with the same talent but couldn't deliver.
As for Jackson having Olympic success, his system takes too long to impliment in the short amount of time it takes to prepare for international competition. Like I said, in order for it to be successful players must understand their roles and develop team chemistry, but unfortunately the learning curve is high in international basketball so team building at a slow pace isn't possible. That's exactly why Coach K simplified the offensive sets and let his players feast on turnovers to fuel the US's offense.
Last edited by Federoy; 03-30-2010 at 05:23 AM.
Federoy's assessment that it would take too long for the players to learn the offense is correct. It's not that the offense is so complicated, but all five players need to know what to do in so many different situations. That's hard to learn.
I think they'd still win. As long as the team gets some good practice time, I think Team USA could win with most reasonable coaches.Maybe. I don't know. It's fun to think about. I think the usual suspects still have a chance of upsetting the USA and they would with or without Jackson.Scenario 2: Let's imagine Phil decides to coach an international powerhouse NT from either Europe or Latin America. Would he be able to upstage the other powerhouses including the USA?No. There seems to be too much turnover from year to year for a lot of those teams.Scenario 3: Phil decides to go domestically overseas to a big Euroleague club either in Spain's ACB or Italy's Lega A. Would he be able to win multiple championships?Hmm. Yes, I think so. Jackson is a smart guy. I think he, unlike, say, Don Nelson, would be comfortable communicating to players who are not as individually talented or athletic as NBA players.Scenario 4: The Zen Master takes the ultimate test and goes to a basketball club where hardly anyone in the organisation, including the players speak English: e.g. a club in China's CBA or Japan's domestic competition. Would he be able to still communicate his basketball tactics and philosophies?
"I really like the attitudes of eagles. They never give up. When they grab a fish or something else, they never let it go. It doesn't matter. In a book, they write they find a skeleton of [an] eagle and there is no fish. It means that the fish beat him and killed him, but he didn't let go." -- Donatas Motiejunas
On Phil Jackson, I think is the best case of a former student refining the master's technique where Phil Jackson took Tex Winter's triangle offense to new heights with the luxury of talented players over the years from Chicago to LA.
If I remember correctly, Old Tex was an assistant coach by Phil when the latter was coaching the Lakers enroute to the 2000 Championship.
I have to give Phil some credit - he pulled this current Lakers team together, and I never gave them a chance to win a ring - he has Kobe in line, which is an achievement - but Phil needs 'big' players - while he would succeed as an international coach, he's not the kind of guy that can take a 'small' team to big things - he needs a 'superstar' in the frame to execute his offense... my humble opinion.
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