Corruption in Russian Basketball and Developments Afterwards
After audio file revealed, Russian media claims, that Lokomotiv - Dinamo game was corrupted by refs. You can listen here how refs try to explain to someone why Lokomotiv lost, because Lokomotiv supposed to win. Audio is in extremely explicit Russian language. After yesterdays Zalgiris-Rytas game and listening this audio file I probably will quit watching pro basketball.
So ,they couldn't fix the game as they were supposed to do?Originally Posted by Test
As far as I red in the media - yes. Dynamo still won by 1 point and ref is explaining to the party that bought a game, why he could't control the game.. because of buzzerbeaters and stuff. Perhaps our Russian friends or people who think they are russian (ArkadiosV2) can explain this situation better.
LOL, refs who can't fix the game. They should be band because of thatI mean refs who can't fix game
Lamonica must be laughing to them
Romeo Travis about Zadar coach Ante NazorRomeo Travis @RomeTrav
I said coach why we practice so much. He said God will bless us after all this hard work. How can I argue with that !
"Corrupted" isn't the appropriate word for what happened there, the basketball federation there is rotten from the foundation.
The folks that were involved in that recorded conversation are
1) Astanin ( observer, Russian basketball federation )
2) Resser ( quarter-finals commissioner , Russian basketball federation)
3) Krug, Bulanov, Razbezhkin - referees
Here is the transcript of the conversation in Russian
Refs are complaining that Lokomotiv played so shitty, so even false calls, wrong outs, unexisted travelings for Dynamo could not help to set the game.
Astanin & Resser are pissed off about the game outcome and blame the refs "you probably ruined our future"
At the end Astanin talks about the need to explain the outcome to "Cherny" ( Chernov - head of Russian basketball federation) and makes a phone call to "Vladimirovich" ( Chernov middle name ) explaining that Lokomotiv is such a shitty team, so they were unable to fix it
After this tape was published ( 5-6 hours before 5th deciding game) Astonin was immediately fired by Chernov, the refs weren't replaced due to "shortage of time" (c) Chernov
To sum it all, it isn't a mere corruption, it's nuclear explosion for the federation
Last edited by Billy Bounce; 05-21-2010 at 09:16 AM.
Come on, this happens all the time. Everyone who works or worked in basketball knows it. It's not something new but it's first time that one had the guts to make a proof out of it. Good job.
Well, in more or less fixed country this should lead to the resignation of half of the officials of basketball federation with its head ( at least) and a crime investigation against people involved .Come on, this happens all the time. Everyone who works or worked in basketball knows it. It's not something new but it's first time that one had the guts to make a proof out of it. Good job.
Let's see how the mills of justice work in Russia
What is good about this story that it shows how easy is to fight a corruption with pretty simple technical stuff : voice recorder + internet video hosting
Why do you think so? It's available.The audio clip isn't available anymore.
I am not nor Russian nor I think I am one, but... when everyone was sleeping, don't know about you... I personally wrote about the exact same matchup and the corruption on Russian league LAST year:
http://www.talkbasket.net/news/dynam...ibed-2508.html
In case you missed it, I'm sure you will enjoy reading it, as it involves a Lithuanian too...
And guess what, I mention Krug in my article 6 months ago already!
And in some of my posts months ago I explained why this particular team is being pushed so hard (Lokomotiv Kuban), if you do a quick search you will find out, if not I can repeat the reason.
http://rutube.ru/tracks/3258935.html...1080ce4ad737b0
You're right. I hope this inspires people in other countries.What is good about this story that it shows how easy is to fight a corruption with pretty simple technical stuff : voice recorder + internet video hosting
(OT: There is an essay by George Orwell about the possible impact of new technology, and how a new (for example) weapon can become either a mean of oppression, or a mean of rebellion. Expensive and hard-to-produce stuff (like a nuclear bomb) are expected to be used by governments, while cheaper stuff (like an ak47) can be used by any individual.
Technology used for (audio or video) recording conversations or meetings has become really f*king cheap, and uploading is also quite easy, so it's expected for this way of fighting corrupted systems to become even more popular...)
BTW, I hope that Putin (or whoever) will decide to use all of this a-holes as an example...
"One more thing, if any admin delit this topic than the next time you will hear from me will not be on this forum but in a court of law with human right crimes on your shoulders, racism, nazism, breaking international law."
That is why I mentioned you. I had a feeling you know more than others about this situation.The audio clip isn't available anymore.
I am not nor Russian nor I think I am one, but... when everyone was sleeping, don't know about you... I personally wrote about the exact same matchup and the corruption on Russian league LAST year:
http://www.talkbasket.net/news/dynam...ibed-2508.html
In case you missed it, I'm sure you will enjoy reading it, as it involves a Lithuanian too...
And guess what, I mention Krug in my article 6 months ago already!
And in some of my posts months ago I explained why this particular team is being pushed so hard (Lokomotiv Kuban), if you do a quick search you will find out, if not I can repeat the reason.
Wow, this is terrible news. I wish that there was a little more insight into how often this happens. As elaj said, this does happen occasionally, even in big leagues (see NBA). But that still doesn't make it right.
The NBA never seemed to properly investigate questionable play-off games from 2002, even after Ralph Nader tried to get congress to open an investigation, and the NBA completely ignored the Tim Donaghy scandal. Of course, the NBA is still surviving...so perhaps the Russian Federation can ignore it and all the problems will go away!
"I really like the attitudes of eagles. They never give up. When they grab a fish or something else, they never let it go. It doesn't matter. In a book, they write they find a skeleton of [an] eagle and there is no fish. It means that the fish beat him and killed him, but he didn't let go." -- Donatas Motiejunas
even if they don't ignore problem will go away. at best main known "actors" will be punished to please people opinion. but after time it will go away and new scames will be made
and i have theory nba is making one at the moment, but it's friking crazy and most likley or for sure not right and exist only in my crazy imaginatoin
Romeo Travis about Zadar coach Ante NazorRomeo Travis @RomeTrav
I said coach why we practice so much. He said God will bless us after all this hard work. How can I argue with that !
According to championat.ru, the Head of russian Superleague Sergei Chernov resigned his post.
This is pretty much nothing as Chernov stayed the head of the federation AND he will probably be the boss of the upcoming VTB league that is supposed to replace Superliga A. As always in Russia, nothing will happen in this case because people who are mostly responsible for this situation have good connections to the executive power in the country. Since the is basically no legislative and no judicial powers, some small figures like the refs will be banned for a year. Of course, the situation is perfect for major changes in Russian sports as a whole and especially Russian club basketball and the bad and corrupt officiating but whether the right measures will be taken remains questionable. In his reaction to this audio recording, Chernov was more concerned about how the team that was supposed to win (by the refs) lost, instead of talking about a clear cut evidence for a major scandal in "his" league. He also said, he had no clue who "Chernyi" is, although it's clear as daylight that refs were referring to him, when talking about this person. For those, who don't understand Russian, "Chernyj" means "black", while "Chernov" has the same meaning basically ("son of the black"). Also, his middle name is not "Vladimirovich" but "Viktorovich", which was also mentioned in this audio piece.
Chernov, a very unsympathetic figure belongs to be banned from all of his posts.
I'm especially disappointed by Efim Resser negatively being involved in this case. He is a well-known and respected basketball figure in Germany and I happen to be acquainted with his son-in-law.
Last edited by goga78; 05-22-2010 at 07:48 AM.
Yea, goga it was indeed "Viktorovich"
The saga continues , BTW
Chernov appointed a special commission for this "tape story" investigation.
As someone put it: it's like head of gangsters who just robbed the bank appoints the commission to investigate the robbery
On account of Resser, Astonin and the refs : to say the truth, i feel sorry for them: it seems like they are forced to do a dirty work under the threat of being fired (in the case they refuse to comply with the Chernov) or being disqualified ( in the case of their influence of the match outcome will be too obvious )
Judging from the fact that there is an audible heart beat in the tape: it was probably recorded by one of the refs
28 Russian basketball referees published an open letter directed at Chernov (!), complaining about "the system" and "pressure on them because refs are socially dependent on the Federation, professional dependency on the Federation management, they have no representative in the Federation".
They offer some ways to get back on track but this stuff is typical for Russia. It is clear who built up this system - Chernov. It is totally clear from the audio recording who ordered the refs to "kill" Dynamo - Chernov. It is clear who should be the first under investigation - Chernov. It is clear who should o a possibly face criminal charges (hell, there is mone involved for him and for the clubs losing it) - Chernov. Yet, those refs are writing him, complaining about the system. As always, the boyars are bad, the tsar is good but he doesn't know about people doing bad. If he would know, he would change the situation.
Right now, Russian basketball has a unique opportunity to get rid of it's corrupt boss and his cronies. Unique for Russia, where even such scandals and being played down immediately and the one who suffers is the journalist who has brought this topic up. I really hope that Chernov gets rid of all of his posts within the Federation, Superleague etc. If he just abandons his position in the Superleague, he will still be in power and he wants to dissolve the Superleague in favour of VTB league anyway.
Today, Superleague A clubs' bosses are meeting to discuss the situation. Right now, only Dynamo and Spartak are openly complaining and calling for Chernov's resignation. CSKA, Khimki and Unics are keeping silent, what is shameful.
http://www.championat.ru/basketball/article-57608.html
German Basketball federation suspended Efim Resser. He will not act as commissioner in any games within German federation or German league as newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Rundschau was told by league and federation officials.
The article linked above (in German) gives a partial transcript of the sound files and points out that possible Chernov is the one to blame. It's a very long and thorough text, bigger than most texts this newspaper (more about it) writes about Basketball.
I guess, Test as a Lithuanian is not responsible for what is happening in Greek basketball. But while the situation you described is atypical for Europe (rather European Union), the same situation is typical for every sphere of life in Russia. While you can go to court and win in Europe, in Russia a guy like Chernov refuses to step down as RFB head even in this situation. While he is involved as the main figure in the biggest corruption scandal in Russian sports which finally got a proof no one can neglect, he went to the minister of sports Mutko to discuss stuff about the upcoming Olympics etc. Nothing about corruption from either side. But, hell, we are talking about Mutko, who refused to step down after his great failure at the Olympic Winter Games 2010.
I am a EU citizen and I know the situation in Russia more then well. Из первых рук, дражайший. Thus I'm entitled to counter your argument.
A couple of new developments on the subject:
Chernov appointed commission has finally met with the people involved ( after a week from the date of the scandal burst
The refs said the tape is authentic although it covers parts of different conversations during Dynamo-Lacomotiv playoffs games 1 & 2.
The federation's Resser & Astonin cited the anonymity of the tape source ( how we can trust it ? ) and the fact that the tape was edited and thus cannot be used as a proof .
It seemed like "The Commission" was more preoccupied with who was the tape source then who is to blame for fixing the games or who is mysterious Mr. Cherniy
At the end "the commission" continues its work : now they wait for the tape authenticity verification ( funny, the refs already verified the conversations on the tape were 100% authentic about 2-3 days ago )
Funny enough , this morning anonymous published 2 unedited tapes from game1 & game2 each of them has a duration of about 2.5 hours
Now, the federation commission has no excuse of telling the tape was edited.
The same anonymous posted also a message , telling he's pissed off about the situation in Russian basketball & citing his and his family personal security from the threat of Chernov's men as a reason he remains anonymous .
Since this tape surfaced it was the hottest item in a bunch of Russian basketball blogs and internet media portals, but the off-line media (TV, printed press) was either silent or defending Chernov
I know a lot of forumers here have their own blogs/portals , so I'd like to ask you to share this story . It may serve as an example how to fight dickheads that fix games and probably will lead to more fix-free basketball for all of us
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