You understood wrong subject of our arguing - it is the last call - i was saying that serbian pulled Skučas hand and washcloud wasn't able to see it and just was repeating that serbian was "mile away" what is clear bsh.Originally Posted by Darknemo2000
Oh I see. Well he was far away from Skucas but his stretched arm was not. It did make a slight contact, it may be hard to see but on slow motion you can def see the contact, the problem is that such contact in most cases is just too light to be called a foul, specially on such decisive moment but I think the fact that Skucas slipped right after it (he slipped on his own though) was what bought refs in.
What are you trying to prove here? There was a clear contact - obvious foul in normal circumstances. Other thing is that refs usually not calling such fouls in last seconds. This is it, end of the story.
The flick from the future...
Well Darknemo2000, you do have a point, about what the Serb should have done : play it (even) safe(r).
Yet (as shown) he didn't do much considering defense - what about if he did absolutely nothing and the Lithuanians managed some...bitter buzzer-beater in those remaining secs? Petkovic 'd have been crucified in the locker room.
Plus this doesn't in any way justify the specific outspoken call.
...you really can't see what I DID prove there? Ah, anyway
..."End of story"?
Relax, I'm not sending this to FIBA Review
Come man, your arguments are strange: "hand reach far away from the ball dribbling hand" while all we can see it's Lithuanian back...you really can't see what I DID prove there? Ah, anyway
..."End of story"?
Relax, I'm not sending this to FIBA ReviewIn the third pic, it looks like Serb hits Liths elbow and you still looking to the other hand that drives the ball (since than you can hit anything except dribbling hand?
). Lastly, I saw that episode on TV screen with reply and that's 100 times more valuable prove than that youtube stuff (were actually you can see a contact), not even talking about these cuts of yours. I hope you got the point.
The flick from the future...
No "strange argument" at all. I'm merely stating the obvious : Petkovic diodn't even go for the ball. What he did was some instinctive move without much sense in it anyway. He didn't aim at somewhere specific - he didn't hit anything as well. His hand movement was analogous to what we do when a fly disturbs us, and we simply scare it away with some clumsy move.
In addition to the above, meticulous look on the video and not the stills, shows how weak this move was.
And oh well what do you think, he'd purposefully go for the LEFT arm of a right-handed dribbling opponent?! That's what you do when you do want to stop the game and send the opponent to the FT line = making a deliberate foul.
Do my arguments still sound "strange" still?
Yes, we as well see a luthuanian back, as you put it (while some others see an arguable foul). Yet, the whole scene (in video playback and not photo stills) reveals the trajectory of Petkovic's hand and the strength this hand moves with. IF he even touched Skucas' arm, he so inconspicuously did it.
Which also raises the question what the ref was looking at then, since his view was compromised by that very back... (well he didn't immediately call it anyway - he only did AFTER Skucas started falling, which totally nullifies the visibility question for that matter........).
The above do qualify YOUR arguments as "strange" : in the 3rd pic we can see what we can see,,,,,,yet there's the issue of the back?
Last but by no means least, this what you see is NOT "youtube stuff". It's direct frame extraction from an avi file of the game, coeming from tv capture (meaning the quality is far superior to "stuff"). Which btw makes it far more dependable than your memory which relies on the live broadcast and the immediate replay.
(I however, and simply for the record, was watching it live on FIBA TV too that night, and I didn't see any foul being commited while watching it even live...).
I didn't wish to commence a conflict with any Lithuanian fans with this - yet somebody even started talking about Greek demonstrators and Germany's dough
I can understand you don't like the idea of something blemishing your victory - but why don't you get it straight? I got nothing against the Lithuanian team (I even expressed my congrats considering them). All I got against, is this last call, which is something that I would similarly be opposed to, had the Greek team been in the sneakers of the Lithuanian one...
Last edited by washcloud; 08-03-2010 at 12:27 PM.
Obviously referess should have called "instinctive foul" and awarded 1 FT
The Moon Is A SCAM(http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm)!
They say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Yeah, right.
...how about some just decision instead of an instinctive call?
"Instinctive foul" calls for "instinctive call"...how about some just decision instead of an instinctive call?
The Moon Is A SCAM(http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm)!
They say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Yeah, right.
It sure does, in general.
But there was no "instinctive foul" in this case.
The only instinctive was the move of the hand Petkovic made (instinctive meaning not deliberate, which in itself proves zip - I just used the word to try point out the facts for the ones that keep seeing a clear foul).
Plus the ref's job is to give calls based on observation and not "instinct".
Refs did a lot of mistakes that day. I can't surely say about last episode, but is he more important than other, only because it was in the end? In fact, no.
http://img840.imageshack.us/i/u18final003.jpg/
Blind one - serbian clearly pulled his left hand. Or you think foul is only when you hit a hand with a ball?
About serbian reaction... That so phatetic from your side. How should they react after foul when it is 66:66 and 1.5 second left?
P.S. Perfect view from over side:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh3N3...os=78P-lmeXmYw
Stop at 4:45 - where is serbian guy hand? Serbian isn't even really discussing it with reffs, he knows what he did.
Last edited by Ashtrusis_dantis; 08-03-2010 at 02:35 PM.
Nonsense - serbian pulled Skučas left hand - it was clear - look how Skučas react to that move and where is serbian hand.
What a hell are you talking?
Well no, Dreamcatcher.
That last call was what you'd call an executionary one. 'Cause 1st of all gives no space for the other to react. Refs have been known to be unfair - to even destroy games with wrong calls. But it's never a case of summing up the wrong ones, to see who got more benefited and who did not. For example a single wrong call can cause havoc, destroy the psychology of a team's players, and no matter if they get "support" later on, even a single wrong call DOES have the potential to be decisive for the outcome of the game.
Same applies here : this wasn't just another bad one. It was the one that left the Serbs with no temporal margin to do anything about it - or even the chance for the referee himself to "correct his mistake".
And once again, this has nothing to do with the Lithuanian team : they played better by the last minutes, bravely too I might add, like the champion material they proved themselves that they were by bashing the Russians the following day. So they did deserve to win that semi as well. But the way that the ref did it for them with that last call (which was kinda seldom too in its nature, I might add) was nasty.
Great logic - if you foul your opponent accidentally so there is no foul. Just perfect.IF he even touched Skucas' arm, he so inconspicuously did it.
I would be silent in that place if i would be you - not i started kindergarten level bsh.I didn't wish to commence a conflict with any Lithuanian fans with this - yet somebody even started talking about Greek demonstrators and Germany's dough
Ashtrusis :
a) Your English starts becoming tiresome - and that's not just your diction anymore (= go Google-translate "inconspicuous"). Or isn't it a literary issue, but a flawed pride one.
b) The only kindergarten approach in the thread was performed by you : that is, instead of at LEAST trying to find means to support your claim (indicating some video, photo, or even interview link), you started disparaging the Greeks as a whole on a...political basis, to do what? "Show" that that was a crystal clear foul. Hah I say.
c) Since I did expect that the "back" frame wasn't gonna be...enough, I did also get into the trouble of taking screenshots of the other available camera angle : For your eyes only !
d) Silent...? You gotta be kidding me. Or else? You gonna call an obstruction foul on me...?
I'm not going to read all forum threads to get to know about who do you like more, I've just read what you've wrote in this topic and that was enough for me.maybe new forum members should actually read forum for a while before they make wrong asumptions and accusations..
it wouldn't hurt them..
Darknemo2000 said everything about refs.
Washcloud, and if you watch that episode from different angle then you may see contact. When Serb used his hand trying to steal a ball then Skučas was trying to move - when you're in action, then you can fall very easily. I don't know...have you ever played basketball?
...well the other one was merely wondering if there weren't any "protests" on the Greek streets these days....When Serb used his hand trying to steal a ball then Skučas was trying to move - when you're in action, then you can fall very easily. I don't know...have you ever played basketball?
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