EDIT: wrote it before saw your last comment:
Federoy,
What about 11:0 Argentina rally cutting it to 4-point deficit few minutes before the end, shutting down US offense?
What about US being unable to execute any kind of half-court offensive scheme against slow veteran teams?
What about Lebron reverting back to his old ways of being unreliable free-throw shooter?
What kind of championship team lets itself to be distracted by few ridiculous fake tough-guy antics?
What about Ginobili repeatedly getting layups against most athletic team? Laziness?
Pretty sure, Argentina got some tricks left under sleeve, hack-a-Chandler could be well one of them. And if Chandler is out, post-up, post-up, post-up, worked so well today against US, that it was dubious, they didnt use it more.
If close game against Brazil had some reasonable excuses there's not much to find here.
I could well start an argument, that 2004 Argentina team would've beaten 2012 US Team
Let's see what Spain game brings, but so far 2012 team is actually looking worse in prep games than 2010 team? No?
Originally Posted by Dtown
Oh, I'm not without concerns myself. This team can certainly be beaten, but like you, I never felt this exhibition was ever in doubt for the US. Clearly, Argentina was trying to make a point with some of their chippiness, hard fouls, and verbage, like some sort of underlying psyc game unfolding. It didn't help that the crowd was partisen to Argentina and the refs were calling a bunch of touch fouls against the US, which added to the frustration and pressure building throughout game. For the US players, they need to tunnel-vision that shit out, because teams like Argentina know that pound-for-pound they can't match the US so turning the game into a ugly, frustration filled foulfest works to their advantage because it throws the US off its game and allows them to operate at their pace.
EDIT: wrote it before saw your last comment:
Federoy,
What about 11:0 Argentina rally cutting it to 4-point deficit few minutes before the end, shutting down US offense?
What about US being unable to execute any kind of half-court offensive scheme against slow veteran teams?
What about Lebron reverting back to his old ways of being unreliable free-throw shooter?
What kind of championship team lets itself to be distracted by few ridiculous fake tough-guy antics?
What about Ginobili repeatedly getting layups against most athletic team? Laziness?
Pretty sure, Argentina got some tricks left under sleeve, hack-a-Chandler could be well one of them. And if Chandler is out, post-up, post-up, post-up, worked so well today against US, that it was dubious, they didnt use it more.
If close game against Brazil had some reasonable excuses there's not much to find here.
I could well start an argument, that 2004 Argentina team would've beaten 2012 US Team
Let's see what Spain game brings, but so far 2012 team is actually looking worse in prep games than 2010 team? No?
I could just as easily flip your argument and suggest that you aren't giving Argentina enough credit despite all the deficiencies you attribute to them.
Look, Argentina's continuity offense is among the best in the world, so all the film sessions and scouting reports in the world aren't going to prepare you for how to defend them, especially when you haven't met them in four years. You're making the same fallacious mistake that Raze made; assuming that because Spain beat them by 20 points and the US struggled against them that therefore something is drastically wrong with the US. Yes, the US has several flaws and, as I stated previously, can certainly be beaten. But I'm not ready to hit the panic button when the US is atrocious at the FT line and allows Argentina to come back after having them down by 20 points, twice no less. If the roles were reversed with the US down by 20 points then were can have a legitimate discussion about the directions of each team.
Good move by coach K in sitting in Chandler... he let the guys in there play thru adversity at the same time prevented a potential hack a chandler scheme here
If Argentina can live with Scola as a slotman or one of their slotmen why can't US where they are more athletic, young and wiry
Last edited by reamily; 07-23-2012 at 12:10 AM.
I love it when we play Argentina.
2013 Draft Pick Wishlist:
Michael Carter-Williams
I was on a train and had to settle for following the game through the live stats, but I'm surprised at some of the comments here...seemed to me like the US had a comfortable lead for most of the game. Always leaves a sour taste when you don't close out a game strong but that doesn't make it a bad performance overall. Maybe I am just more pessimistic to begin with and am therefore pleasantly surprised when we beat good teams.
I really wish we weren't playing Spain in a friendly.
You can't judge a team's overall performance in just exhibition games. If this was a real game in the Olympics where wins and positioning in standing counts, I believe the USA would have played differently. Never underestimate Team USA just look what happened in WC 2010. When the going gets tough, USA will get tougher.
Doesn't seem to be on their website yet but Monday's Mundo Deportivo already has a column complaining that the refs favor the US.
WTF!!!!!What game were they watching? The US was penalized far more frequently than Argentina. In fact, it seemed like the referees were making a concerted effort to eliminate the hand checking, swiping and off the ball pressure that would have given the US an advantage. The numbers don't lie: ARG, 19-29 and the USA, 15-26 at the foul line. You've got to love the European point-of-view.
I only was able to watch the 2nd half (I only get to watch half of any game lately it seems- scheduling conflicts) but here are my thoughts:
-refs were bad on both sides but didn't seem to favor either team, aren't FIBA refs supposed to allow more contact than NBA refs? seemed like there were a lot of small, ticky tack fouls
-I like that Coach K had guys actually settin more screens this game- I saw Love, Anthony, Chandler, even James set screens
-I thought the ball movement on offense was actually much better than the Brazil game when we were incredibly stagnant
-When we shot three pointers we almost always shot them off of a pass instead off of the dribble which I liked, also most of them were without a hand in our face, still we shot a few too many for the makeup of this team
-Why doesn't Coach K play Kevin Love more? I don't get it, he's just what we need on offense- a guy who rebounds like a mad man, sets screens all the time and is the perfect outlet passer, I don't get it
-We mostly negated Argentina's pick and roll and their usually beautiful passing game in the halfcourt, they had to rely a lot on Ginobili, Scola, Prigioni creating offense for themselves which is a huge improvement over the Brazil game when they picked us apart with a more 'European' style
-We got a forearm into cutters on defense and were fairly quick to close out on shooters, although that could have been better. We closed down passing lanes in the halfcourt very well I thought which is a big deal
Overall, I agree with you guys that although the final score was close the game didn't feel that close. It didn't feel like a blowout either but it felt like a comfortable win for the U.S. which is good at this point in the preparation. It was much improved over the Brazil game for sure. Also, one last point- the U.S. won this game essentially playing a half court game against one of the best half court offensive teams in the past 10 years which was nice to see because our half court game has traditionally been inconsistent. We didn't pressure the ball as much or as strongly as I expect Coach K to have us do the next time we play them.
Maybe Kevin Love is Team USA's secret weapon.
-I miss Billups. Nevermind the hype surrounding this supperstars Billups will never receive, he is doing things for the team Westbrook and Williams can't, while I'm yet to see a bit more about how Paul will do in international game. Last championship, nevermind the dominance, US under Westbrook looked few levels worse and no, that wasn't due to 1st compared to 2nd lineup issue. Ballhoging is a rampant disease with superstar PG's and it's nothing worse than having a PG that believes he can do it all by himself, or if not entirely at least doing everything by himself to finish with a flashy pass - supposedly the part of "including players" although 3 of them might fall asleep during offense along. Billups on the other hand spreaded the offense widened the defense by ball movement on the perimeter and by taking care of his teamates getting to touch the ball within the offense actually including them into it. Yet to see how others will react.
-I don't like Melo as an NBA player, like him even less as int' player. The truth is unless he'll let the big three occasionaly dominate without his ego being hurt, he'll harm the team, there are better options than him in this team for basicaly about everything.
-I miss Lamar Odom. Yeah, I know he sucked the past season and all, yet he was a perfect international center and US had a great center pair with him and Chandler, far from onedimensional. He can play a center at international level, well with his agility, handling, courtvision and long range, he basicaly looked irreplacable at WC last year a clear no.2 on the team. Apart from Durant I could barely find few "int-center-able-players" to perform as efficiently for the team as Lamar did at world championship.
-generally as I apreciate a good set screen just as much as about anything else, I kind of miss those hard-workers used of setting those efficiently. US has loads of talent as well as coach K and are by far no.1 favourite for Olympic gold, just that teams not stacked with as many star players perform better - at the last championship that was visible from a plane, pure poetry I am afraid we won't be seeing this year.
Last edited by Joško Poljak Fan; 07-23-2012 at 11:26 AM.
That doesn't surprise me. They have to have some type of an excuse when they lose. The complaints usually one sided too. They will show a video of a USA player traveling yet ignore the other team traveling, fouling etc. I thought Scola was moving his pivot foot a lot last night.WTF!!!!!What game were they watching? The US was penalized far more frequently than Argentina. In fact, it seemed like the referees were making a concerted effort to eliminate the hand checking, swiping and off the ball pressure that would have given the US an advantage. The numbers don't lie: ARG, 19-29 and the USA, 15-26 at the foul line. You've got to love the European point-of-view.
EDIT: I found the article. The writer is obviously blind. Here it is.
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/201207...327655766.html
Last edited by Raze Lupin; 07-23-2012 at 05:48 PM.
US players trying to gain favor with the Barcelona crowd:
http://www.7msport.com/news/newsdata...22/76126.shtml
Lebron would get more love in Yankee Stadium wearing a Red Sox cap than Team US winning over the Barcelona crowd for tomorrow's game. Maybe if he spoke Catalonian he might get a few cheers from the crowd!
No chance they win that crowd overLebron would get more love in Yankee Stadium wearing a Red Sox cap than Team US winning over the Barcelona crowd for tomorrow's game. Maybe if he spoke Catalonian he might get a few cheers from the crowd!
Chris Sheridan:
Sheridan has had a bunch of good articles on his site recently.ARCELONA — Memo to Kevin Love: If you don’t knock someone on their ass tomorrow, and if you continue to play as though you have a sense of entitlement rather than a job to do, you are going to be watching Anthony Davis take your minutes as the last big man off the bench.
That advice is based on solid intel, because the powers that be at USA Basketball are not happy that the Kevin Love they came to appreciate two years ago in Turkey has somehow morphed into a Kevin Love who didn’t even leave his feet Sunday night when he got outworked for a rebound by Andres Nocioni in Team USA’s closer-that-it-should-have-been 86-80 victory over Argentina.
As it is, Love is the 10th man in the Americans’ rotation, watching Andre Iguodala take what could be his minutes. The reason? Iggy makes things happen on the defensive end, poking balls away, disrupting penetration and creating the transition opportunities that Team USA thrives on.
So if Love finds himself getting muscled by Serge Ibaka or Marc Gasol or Pau Gasol tomorrow night when the United States plays Spain in its final (and toughest) exhibition game, a little irrational exuberance might not be called for — but it’d be a welcome sight to those in the U.S. federation who believe Love has gone soft, too soft to be useful.
I think that team USA has one huge problems, that's overlooked by most of the basketball scholars. No, not the lack of size in the front court, but the lack of real leader at the point guard position. This team is like the 2004 and 2006 ones - no PGs, one of the reasons why the 08 and 10 teams worked was the presence of Jason Kidd and Billups, because they were able to dictate the game tempo by simply having the ball in their hands, now with Westbrook and Paul this would be impossible, the only hope Deron.
And the reason why Love doesn't play well is the lack of touches, the big fell must feel the ball and get involved in the offense, not watch how his teammates chuck away 3ptrs
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Chris paul and Deron Williams are more than enough for the point guard position. You should also know that Lebron james is a Point foward who averages between 6 and 7 assist. The point position is of for USA.
Love does need touches but he needs to do dirt work and bang for rebounds. Love needs more minutes.
Last edited by Raze Lupin; 07-24-2012 at 05:15 PM. Reason: grammar
I don't talk about assists, but rather about leadership, in Beijing, when the ball was in the hands of Jason Kidd, both teams knew that he was THE MAN and he is commanding the game, same with Billups in 2010, yes they weren't playing 40 minutes a game or filling up the spreadsheet, but the intangibles are waaay more important when you have The Mamba, LeBron, Melo, Durant to score at will.
Love is that kind of player that must get involved in the offense to be effective, I played with guys like him - if you don't pass them they get disinterested.
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