Bottom line....
Kaimakoglou - has to go. I said over and here that he sucks. people kept arguing with me (well delusional PAO homers anyway). He must be removed from the team. He was the absolute main weakness of this team. 3 summers and 3 times he did NOTHING.
He is in no way in hell good enough to be the backup PF. Vasilopoulos, Printezis, Tapoutos, Printezis, Mavrokefalidis (who knows?) are all better options.
Papanikoloau - he sucks. has no business being on the team. No skills, no basketball ability at all. Just a hustle player.
Sloukas - mentally weak and timid. Talented, but seems to be scared at this level. He is a 3rd string guy at most.
Xanthopoulos - OK as a 3rd string point guard. Useless as the backup.
Nick Calathes - totally proved people like KWSN-Men and wrdjdim are just pure haters (of Spanoulis) and fanatics of PAO (KWSN-Men).
This guy is "better than Spanoulis"? Yeah right. Nick Calathes is a huge drop off from what Greece is uded to at PG with Diamantidis, Papaloukas, Spanoulis. Calathes is nowhere near as good as those players and never will be.
"Better than Spanoulis".........In his wildest dreams Calathes cannot be half the player Spanoulis is.
Mavroeidis - fine as a third center. Way better than Vougioukas. He is not needed on the team however, not if Sofo, Koufos, Bourousis are there.
Bramos - I like him better than Perperoglou actually. But, still Vasilopoulos is much better than Bramos is. Pelekanos is also probably a better option.
Fotsis - proved once again that he is just a great role player. He is the Robert Horry of Europe. He cannot lead a team. Just not that good.
Zisis - sure he could have played better, but the insults on him are a joke. He played 5 times better than Calathes did the whole tournament. yet some of the biggest PAO worshipers here just keep bashing him and keep praising Calathes, who basically sucked the whole tournament.
Zisis is fine. He is like a 4th option in a full Greece, which he is great at.
Bourousis - easily proved he is better than Koufos to be honest about it. Still, he could have played better than he did. Too much complaining and being a hot head as usual distracted him.
Vasileiadis - he will be perfect in a full team. Damn, Giannakis. If Greece has Vasileiadis in 2007 and 2008 I bet there is 2 more medals right now. He was being asked to do too much in this team.
Koufos - big improvement, huge even from 2009. Still, his defense is below average and he has a serious lack of understanding how to be a post player. What the hell do coaches in NBA teach? On almost every damn play in the low post this guy shoots a turnaround fade away shot.......
what the hell? Fades away on almost everything. Unacceptable totally. The NBA coaches are ruining him. Mavroeidis is a far superior post player to Koufos for example, and has way less natural talent.
Koufos could be a great center in the future for Greece but he has to get out of the NBA and away from its dreadful coaches or his career will be completely wrecked.
If he leaves the NBA then there is very good hope for him. Not much at all if he stays in the NBA.
The obvious huge weak points are Nick Calathes, Sloukas, Papanikolaou, and Kaimakoglou. You have 3 guys that should be nowhere near the team and have no quality to the standard of the team in the last 25 years (Sloukas, Papamikoloau, Kaimakoglou), and Calathes who is supposed to be "the new leader", who is nothing more than at best, and 8-10 minute backup.
wardjdim has claimed for months in this forum that Papanikolaou and Calathes should be the "leaders" of Greece's national team. Well if these are the leaders then Greece will be in the EuroBasket B division shortly.
Papanikoloau flat out sucks (he's like a much worse version of Pelekanos) and Calathes has virtually no point guard skills other than dribbling. He can't shoot, he can run an offense.
Nick Calathes also played about the worst defense I have seen ever a point guard play at this level. His defense in this tournament was so awful it was almost unfathomable.
He was completely and utterly destroyed by just about every point guard he tried to guard. He is only capable of guarding 2 guards or slow, big point guards. He is completely incapable of defending a single quick point guard in Europe.
Not only was Calathes extremely mediocre on offense, his defense was absolutely pathetic. Vasileiaidis is 10 times a better defender than Calathes in this tournament.
I was watching one game where the American and British announcer said something like "Calathes' defense is so bad in this game that it almost makes you wonder how he can be on a club like Panathinaikos."
A friend of mine watching one of the games with me said, "man Calathes is the most brutally awful on ball defender at one I have ever seen." And seeing Calathes' "defense" in this tournament he was right.
Calathes is great at defending shooting guards, but the experiment of him defending the 1 was done. NO WAY IN HELL SHOULD HE EVER be defending point guards. You know damn well that is why Obradovic brought Logan to PAO, because Calathes is totally incapable of defending the 1 position.
Everyone keeps saying, "when we get our players back it will be fine". Sure..........like if they miss 2012 Olympics that all these players like Spanoulis, Sofo, Bourousis, Zisis, Fotsis are coming back. I doubt it. They miss the Olympics and this is it. DONE. KWSN-Men and wardjdim get their dream. A national team of Calathes and Papanikoloau for the future, competing in the B division.
Bottom line, Diamantidis is the single biggest disgrace in the nation of Greece's history as far as athletes go. he has ruined and wrecked and destroyed the whole basketball program of Greece if they lose to Serbia. Papaloukas and Mavrokefalidis are not much better.
But Diamantidis............I think fair and just response for him is that he is banned from playing in the Greek Championship for 2 years. I believe a petition should be started demanding this.
Hard words from Zouros after the tournament:
Schortsianitis & Mavrokefalidis do not deserve to be part of the national team.
What a pitty. Schortsianits is a very big loss for the Greek NT.
Hellas Youtube Full-Game Video Collection
Panagiotis Giannakis: "η άμυνα είναι λεφτά στην τράπεζα και η επίθεση λεφτά στο χρηματιστήριο"
Originally Posted by FIBA Europe Basket
Bottom line....
Kaimakoglou - has to go. I said over and here that he sucks. people kept arguing with me (well delusional PAO homers anyway). He must be removed from the team. He was the absolute main weakness of this team. 3 summers and 3 times he did NOTHING.
He is in no way in hell good enough to be the backup PF. Vasilopoulos, Printezis, Tapoutos, Printezis, Mavrokefalidis (who knows?) are all better options.
Papanikoloau - he sucks. has no business being on the team. No skills, no basketball ability at all. Just a hustle player.
Sloukas - mentally weak and timid. Talented, but seems to be scared at this level. He is a 3rd string guy at most.
Xanthopoulos - OK as a 3rd string point guard. Useless as the backup.
Nick Calathes - totally proved people like KWSN-Men and wrdjdim are just pure haters (of Spanoulis) and fanatics of PAO (KWSN-Men).
This guy is "better than Spanoulis"? Yeah right. Nick Calathes is a huge drop off from what Greece is uded to at PG with Diamantidis, Papaloukas, Spanoulis. Calathes is nowhere near as good as those players and never will be.
"Better than Spanoulis".........
Mavroeidis - fine as a third center. Way better than Vougioukas. He is not needed on the team however, not if Sofo, Koufos, Bourousis are there.
Bramos - I like him better than Perperoglou actually. But, still Vasilopoulos is much better than Bramos is. Pelekanos is also probably a better option.
Fotsis - proved once again that he is just a great role player. He is the Robert Horry of Europe. He cannot lead a team. Just not that good.
Zisis - sure he could have played better, but the insults on him are a joke. He played 5 times better than Calathes did the whole tournament. yet some of the biggest PAO worshipers here just keep bashing him and keep praising Calathes, who basically sucked the whole tournament.
Zisis is fine. He is like a 4th option in a full Greece, which he is great at.
Bourousis - easily proved he is better than Koufos to be honest about it. Still, he could have played better than he did. Too much complaining and being a hot head as usual distracted him.
Vasileiadis - he will be perfect in a full team. Damn, Giannakis. If Greece has Vasileiadis in 2007 and 2008 I bet there is 2 more medals right now. He was being asked to do too much in this team.
Koufos - big improvement, huge even from 2009. Still, his defense is below average and he has a serious lack of understanding how to be a post player. What the hell do coaches in NBA teach? On almost every damn play in the low post this guy shoots a turnaround fade away shot.......
what the hell? Fades away on almost everything. Unacceptable totally. The NBA coaches are ruining him. Mavroeidis is a far superior post player to Koufos for example, and has way less natural talent.
Koufos could be a great center in the future for Greece but he has to get out of the NBA and away from its dreadful coaches or his career will be completely wrecked.
If he leaves the NBA then there is very good hope for him. Not much at all if he stays in the NBA.
The obvious huge weak points are Nick Calathes, Sloukas, Papanikolaou, and Kaimakoglou. You have 3 guys that should be nowhere near the team and have no quality to the standard of the team in the last 25 years (Sloukas, Papamikoloau, Kaimakoglou), and Calathes who is supposed to be "the new leader", who is nothing more than at best, and 8-10 minute backup.
wardjdim has claimed for months in this forum that Papanikolaou and Calathes should be the "leaders" of Greece's national team. Well if these are the leaders then Greece will be in the EuroBasket B division shortly.
Papanikoloau flat out sucks (he's like a much worse version of Pelekanos) and Calathes has virtually no point guard skills other than dribbling. He can't shoot, he can run an offense.
Nick Calathes also played about the worst defense I have seen ever a point guard play at this level. His defense in this tournament was so awful it was almost unfathomable.
He was completely and utterly destroyed by just about every point guard he tried to guard. He is only capable of guarding 2 guards or slow, big point guards. He is completely incapable of defending a single quick point guard in Europe.
Not only was Calathes extremely mediocre on offense, his defense was absolutely pathetic. Vasileiaidis is 10 times a better defender than Calathes in this tournament.
I was watching one game where the American and British announcer said something like "Calathes' defense is so bad in this game that it almost makes you wonder how he can be on a club like Panathinaikos."
A friend of mine watching one of the games with me said, "man Calathes is the most brutally awful on ball defender at one I have ever seen." And seeing Calathes' "defense" in this tournament he was right.
Calathes is great at defending shooting guards, but the experiment of him defending the 1 was done. NO WAY IN HELL SHOULD HE EVER be defending point guards. You know damn well that is why Obradovic brought Logan to PAO, because Calathes is totally incapable of defending the 1 position.
Everyone keeps saying, "when we get our players back it will be fine". Sure..........like if they miss 2012 Olympics that all these players like Spanoulis, Sofo, Bourousis, Zisis, Fotsis are coming back. I doubt it. They miss the Olympics and this is it. DONE. KWSN-Men and wardjdim get their dream. A national team of Calathes and Papanikoloau for the future, competing in the B division.
Bottom line, Diamantidis is the single biggest disgrace in the nation of Greece's history as far as athletes go. he has ruined and wrecked and destroyed the whole basketball program of Greece if they lose to Serbia. Papaloukas and Mavrokefalidis are not much better.
But Diamantidis............I think fair and just response for him is that he is banned from playing in the Greek Championship for 2 years. I believe a petition should be started demanding this.
You are ridiculous. Calathes was the only player that managed to contain Navarro this season. Navarro is a SG but he is as quick as the quickest point guards. He is already better than Spanoulis at the assist department and has too many years in front of him to get better at scoring too. There are many examples of players who couldn't shoot at the early stages of their career. I also believe that his shooting has a lot to do with his confidence, at NCAA he had very decent shooting ratings.
So, you can't expect a 22 year old to lead a national team like Greece.
Spanoulis at 22 was not even close to play as a 5th guard for the NT.
You prefer Bramos and Pelekanos over Perperoglou? Pelekanos, really?? Obvious troll is obvious.
Also, Vasiliadis should not get even close to the NT EVER AGAIN. He was the worst player in this NT. He wouldn't play any D and his offense was awful. I believe your trusted friends didn't say anything about his defense, which was the reason Greece got eliminated from France by letting Batum shoot a handful of open shots.
The bullshit about Diamantidis shows your hatred. He has every right to retire from international basketball.
Last edited by tyreke13; 09-19-2011 at 10:47 AM.
Can you find a link to this interview/ statement?
We could definitly use these guys for the Olympics qualifying tournament but somehow I feel that Zouros is right. You cannot just invite these guys back because it shows that some players consider themselves more important than the team and that they can just walk in and out as they please. Not only is it disrespectful to the coach but also the players who worked thier asses off.
That's why Spanoulis deserves a lot of BRAVO because despite his doctor advice to avoid playing this year with the NT, cause of an old injure he had, he didn't listen to him, and came to play. Unfortunately the old injure got worse during the preparation games, and Spanoulis got to surgery.
He risked his health, and his contract with OLY, just because he wanted to be a member of the Greek NT.
Maurokefalidis Shortsianitis Diamantidis are very valuable players, but since they decide to hang the NT I don't see how they will get an invitation again to wear the National shirt.
Over the saddle we became SERBIA buck in 90's when the best Serbian players preferred to go for vacations instead of playing with their NT.
We don't produce so many good athletes in Basketball and the National team can't afford all these absentees.
It's a shame especially for Diamantidis. Did he get tired to play with his NT from the age of 30 ????????? Come on let's be serious !!! What Nowitzki should do then? He still plays with Germany, he is older than Diamantidis, and he plays more games every year. Dozens more games.
Last edited by Panathinaikos bc; 09-19-2011 at 02:34 PM.
I hope Greeks can regroup for the Olympics and if LeBron is there please make him cry again
http://www.gazzetta.gr/article/item/...i-o-mpourouses
Bottom line....
Kaimakoglou - has to go. I said over and here that he sucks. people kept arguing with me (well delusional PAO homers anyway). He must be removed from the team. He was the absolute main weakness of this team. 3 summers and 3 times he did NOTHING.
He is in no way in hell good enough to be the backup PF. Vasilopoulos, Printezis, Tapoutos, Printezis, Mavrokefalidis (who knows?) are all better options.
Papanikoloau - he sucks. has no business being on the team. No skills, no basketball ability at all. Just a hustle player.
Sloukas - mentally weak and timid. Talented, but seems to be scared at this level. He is a 3rd string guy at most.
Xanthopoulos - OK as a 3rd string point guard. Useless as the backup.
Nick Calathes - totally proved people like KWSN-Men and wrdjdim are just pure haters (of Spanoulis) and fanatics of PAO (KWSN-Men).
This guy is "better than Spanoulis"? Yeah right. Nick Calathes is a huge drop off from what Greece is uded to at PG with Diamantidis, Papaloukas, Spanoulis. Calathes is nowhere near as good as those players and never will be.
"Better than Spanoulis".........
Mavroeidis - fine as a third center. Way better than Vougioukas. He is not needed on the team however, not if Sofo, Koufos, Bourousis are there.
Bramos - I like him better than Perperoglou actually. But, still Vasilopoulos is much better than Bramos is. Pelekanos is also probably a better option.
Fotsis - proved once again that he is just a great role player. He is the Robert Horry of Europe. He cannot lead a team. Just not that good.
Zisis - sure he could have played better, but the insults on him are a joke. He played 5 times better than Calathes did the whole tournament. yet some of the biggest PAO worshipers here just keep bashing him and keep praising Calathes, who basically sucked the whole tournament.
Zisis is fine. He is like a 4th option in a full Greece, which he is great at.
Bourousis - easily proved he is better than Koufos to be honest about it. Still, he could have played better than he did. Too much complaining and being a hot head as usual distracted him.
Vasileiadis - he will be perfect in a full team. Damn, Giannakis. If Greece has Vasileiadis in 2007 and 2008 I bet there is 2 more medals right now. He was being asked to do too much in this team.
Koufos - big improvement, huge even from 2009. Still, his defense is below average and he has a serious lack of understanding how to be a post player. What the hell do coaches in NBA teach? On almost every damn play in the low post this guy shoots a turnaround fade away shot.......
what the hell? Fades away on almost everything. Unacceptable totally. The NBA coaches are ruining him. Mavroeidis is a far superior post player to Koufos for example, and has way less natural talent.
Koufos could be a great center in the future for Greece but he has to get out of the NBA and away from its dreadful coaches or his career will be completely wrecked.
If he leaves the NBA then there is very good hope for him. Not much at all if he stays in the NBA.
The obvious huge weak points are Nick Calathes, Sloukas, Papanikolaou, and Kaimakoglou. You have 3 guys that should be nowhere near the team and have no quality to the standard of the team in the last 25 years (Sloukas, Papamikoloau, Kaimakoglou), and Calathes who is supposed to be "the new leader", who is nothing more than at best, and 8-10 minute backup.
wardjdim has claimed for months in this forum that Papanikolaou and Calathes should be the "leaders" of Greece's national team. Well if these are the leaders then Greece will be in the EuroBasket B division shortly.
Papanikoloau flat out sucks (he's like a much worse version of Pelekanos) and Calathes has virtually no point guard skills other than dribbling. He can't shoot, he can run an offense.
Nick Calathes also played about the worst defense I have seen ever a point guard play at this level. His defense in this tournament was so awful it was almost unfathomable.
He was completely and utterly destroyed by just about every point guard he tried to guard. He is only capable of guarding 2 guards or slow, big point guards. He is completely incapable of defending a single quick point guard in Europe.
Not only was Calathes extremely mediocre on offense, his defense was absolutely pathetic. Vasileiaidis is 10 times a better defender than Calathes in this tournament.
I was watching one game where the American and British announcer said something like "Calathes' defense is so bad in this game that it almost makes you wonder how he can be on a club like Panathinaikos."
A friend of mine watching one of the games with me said, "man Calathes is the most brutally awful on ball defender at one I have ever seen." And seeing Calathes' "defense" in this tournament he was right.
Calathes is great at defending shooting guards, but the experiment of him defending the 1 was done. NO WAY IN HELL SHOULD HE EVER be defending point guards. You know damn well that is why Obradovic brought Logan to PAO, because Calathes is totally incapable of defending the 1 position.
Everyone keeps saying, "when we get our players back it will be fine". Sure..........like if they miss 2012 Olympics that all these players like Spanoulis, Sofo, Bourousis, Zisis, Fotsis are coming back. I doubt it. They miss the Olympics and this is it. DONE. KWSN-Men and wardjdim get their dream. A national team of Calathes and Papanikoloau for the future, competing in the B division.
Bottom line, Diamantidis is the single biggest disgrace in the nation of Greece's history as far as athletes go. he has ruined and wrecked and destroyed the whole basketball program of Greece if they lose to Serbia. Papaloukas and Mavrokefalidis are not much better.
But Diamantidis............I think fair and just response for him is that he is banned from playing in the Greek Championship for 2 years. I believe a petition should be started demanding this.
agree with you
Fully off-topic but i think it's worthsharing...That's the reaction of Bakayioko (PAS Giannena) to the question of the journalist; "When will PAS 'll be 100% ready?", after the translator accidentally didn't translate it correctly in English.
Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VipbH...&feature=share
DEJAN BODIROGA-The Green God
Mια νύχτα μας, όλη η ζωή σας...
Ποτέ ξανά πρωτάθλημα στον Πειραιά...
(Copyright: Dino, Οικονόμου, Φράγκι, Dejan Bond e.t.c.)
TRIBUTE TO MEMBER Saras7-antibazelos
Stis xares kai stis lipes mazi triffilara mou mono esi
Check my avatar.
How can anyone compete to the previous posts' level?
Just by mentioning that Greece managed a great deal of success by reaching the top6 and the pre-Olympic tournament. They managed that with a rather conservative (yet lucky) coach, without gameplan, with its most reliable PG (that is, Calathes) injured for almost all the preparation period and of course, with some serious lack of competition in the early stages. Add to that the ridiculous amount of luck to get a physically and mentally hurt Serbian NT as an opponent on the 5-8 matches (with Serbian players having had no sleep the night before) and you get a team that pretty much got a non-deserved 6th place in this Eurobasket
Conclusive points:
Zouros didn't do much, but he was better than Kazlauskas. Yet, he was one more conservative coach who relied on veteran players, didn't do much besides giving Koufos and Calathes their chances to play a good part on the team (but, if Spanoulis and Sofo were on the team, then Calathes and Koufos wouldn't play for more than 5'-10' respectively, so no congrats to Zouros, just to his ability to take advantage of his luck). Besides that, he got absolutely nothing from a bunch of very useful key players
Papanikolaou was a non-factor offensively, completing his 2nd non-existent season at the senior level. It would have been Zouros' fault, if previously the young lad hadn't proven himself useless with Olympiacos. From "doing a lot of things well" he now doesn't do much and he is only 21
Vasiliadis, besides his bad shooting, was never wisely used. That's the coach's fault
Sloukas was not used on one of the summer jokes for the entire Eurobasket, as Xanthopoulos (0.6ppg) was the 2nd PG option. Coach fault
Kaimakoglou didn't have a good tournament. Kaimakoglou has always been a very useful role player. Once again, Zouros' fault
Even Bramos, a very willing guy in the beginning, eager to contribute, supposedly a good shooter, ended up being a guy to leave open and probably nothing more than a back up solution for a mid-level team
Zouros, who didn't call Pappas instead of Xanthopoulos, who didn't even manage to get the best out of none of the role players, who stated publicly that players who are didn't respond to his call on the NT won't play again. This is the Greek NT coach right now. This is bad news. That's a guy who constantly insults human smarts by claiming the following: "we finished 6th, while teams like Italy, Germany and Turkey are not even in the top8" when, if these specific teams managed to be in the top8, then he would state that "Spain, Lithuania and Serbia are not in the top8"
Ok, this guy is extremely lucky (lucky draw, lucky that Croatia was dreadful, lucky that Serbia got the injuries, lucky that Spanoulis and Sofo were not in the team, lucky he has had a career), but he is nothing more than an old-school defensive coach
Greece can do better than him, I think
Sexuality when one reaches their 30s is either mainstream or sick, but no matter what, it isn't pure
It's very amusing to read all these posts about Zouros. People tend to have pre-fixed opinions about people that never change. If Greece had another coach we would read how great coach he is managing to present a highly competitive greek team with a bunch of eurocup level players... But not for Zouros. He was just extremely lucky
I would generalize more and say that not only Zouros but the greek national team in general has been very lucky this year.
If the GNT would have been in a tougher group like B for example it could have happen that they leave the tournament even in the first group stage. In addition we were lucky that Serbia was demotivated and frustrated because they wanted to play to win a medal and not for place 6.
However fortune favors the bold. Greece had the right spirit in all games and therefore I think that they deserve one spot in the preolympic tournament.
Hellas Youtube Full-Game Video Collection
Panagiotis Giannakis: "η άμυνα είναι λεφτά στην τράπεζα και η επίθεση λεφτά στο χρηματιστήριο"
I believe that especially in the QF phase, it was pretty much established that the groups weren't so unbalanced after all...
Agreed
In fact, all 4 teams that finished top of their first group stages ended up in the semi-finals.....so I guess logic prevailed.
The first greek games in the first group stage were very chaotic. Maybe due to Bouroussis flue, I do not know. They improved step by step and devilered a solid performance in the quarter final and the classification games.
I think that if we would have faced harder opponents in the first group stage like Germany or Turkey the probalitiy of failure would have been much higher at this stage of the tournament.
At the end who cares! We are in the preolympic tournament next year and thats all that counts.
Hellas Youtube Full-Game Video Collection
Panagiotis Giannakis: "η άμυνα είναι λεφτά στην τράπεζα και η επίθεση λεφτά στο χρηματιστήριο"
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