Not because for 42 years he plays god in Libya and supported international terrorism throughout decades? Not because Libyans had enough of his antics and brutalities and have risen up?Originally Posted by sinobball
burnstein
1. I for one live in a democracy and tis democracy is being represented by NATO militarily.
2. Best for people is to use their universal natural ability that differentiates them from animal: freedom to chose. Freedom of analyze things in an open process and to chose. For 42 years Libyans were not able to chose.
3. Libya is not being bombed into stone age. As Gaddafi rather choses to see Libyans die but cling to power, Libyans are getting killed. This happens in every war. Germany was destroyed in the war for large parts bu built anew and is one of the financial and infrastructural giants of the world.
4. When it's badly armed people being butchered by a dictator with military and mercenaries, it's clear which side you will chose in order to prevent a massacre. Very easy to understand.
Comparing apples to peaches doesn't help your cause other than trying to relativize Gaddafi's deeds. "Yes, he is not innocent but others are also bad, so there is nothing exceptionally evil in him. After all, he isn't that bad at all". You can play these tricks only with your mirror image. Too easy to see through this.gaddafi is not innocent baby, we all know that, but like who is, this leaders in US and NATO countries are responsible for destruction in all this wars, for thousands of deaths, and who is now in jail for all that?
1. UN Security Council resolutions ARE international law.Just as i said double standards, not even sign of democracy, and without respect for any international law, which are the basis for today's world and if they are not followed I do not know what will, total anarchy (or as chavez explained stone age).
2. International law allows even individual countries to engage themselves militarily, if mass murder in a different country is about to be carried out or is being carried out - even without UN Security Council resolutions.
3. Chavez again? You seem to like every bobblehead. One red-shirted in Venezuela, one who lets Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor be arrested and sentenced to death on charge to have made Libyans sick with AIDS, the one who openly proposes to abolish Switzerland and give neighboring countries its territorial parts etc.
Finally you said it - you support him. Just because the Saud family is still in power, dosn't make Gaddafi legitimate. Absolutely, there are other evil regimes. They are not like here but tolerated to some extent as they are cooperating on key issues.they are not talking about situation in quatar, saudi arabia and all their allied countries with 5X worse regimes, these are all reasons why I support him.
It's not the "bad guy picture in western medias". It is what Serbia's and Serbian previous leaders did, starting with 1991. They waged war in Croatia, in Bosnia, conducted ethnic cleansing in parts of Kosovo. No, NATO was not "destroying everything they want", being very well aware that Serbia will be a partner after Milosevic has been ousted. I know these notions among some Serbians but you rather should look into the mirror. Serbia started it all and is responsible for many deaths. But you don't mention it with a single word.and u think that im against nato just because of war in serbia, thats partly true because i saw how their humanitarian missions are working, with many innocent victims and destroying simple everything they want, against every international law + massive propaganda without any truth in it, we were just shocked back than with that and Serbs are still suffering from that bad guy picture in western medias. And they are using same tactics/methods in every single war.
BTW, I was watching Serbian TV through Russian TV in that time partly. Media propaganda happens everywhere and is normal. One difference - Milosevic's Serbia was speaking with one voice, while here we had different voices and opinions - as always in democracies. Every mislead NATO bomb was in the news, showing what was hit and destroyed. Hey, what do you think? Tens or hundreds of thousands of soldiers are being involved, heavy military and you think it can be a chirurgical operation with no collateral damages?! Nice, if it could be like that but get real.
burnstein
The Lybians finally got rid of that power hungry criminal,Gaddafi.
I just wish they could've done it without NATO's help, NATO and the US got what they wanted now, they saw that Gaddafi was a loosing card,so they just let him go just like they did with Mubarak and sided with the revolution in order to protect their oil intrests.
And it's just yesterday that the revolutionaries said that they will respect the oil contracts signed during Gaddafi's rule.
So in the end,it's clear why the US intervened, it's to protect their intrests and oil mining contracts and not actually protect democracy and all that shit.
Poor democracy,how many battles are fought in your name
Goodluck to the Lybians,they're free now,i just hope they can get out of US influence.
+1
The most cynical and pragmatic view. Sadly, this is the bottom line.
Who are you to judge?
It's not that easy. Factual results can be dictated by the stronger side militarily - albeit not necessarily, see e.g. Somalia, where public perception at home and politics stood in the way of the military - but international law is codified and has nothing to dowith military power, while the Security Council, who is also a source of binding international law, is deeply divided and thus even an engagement of one of its members does not necessarily have the Security Council backing it.
Placative statements are often beyond truth and this is a good example for it. Not everything is so cynical.
burnstein
So, oil is again the trigger? Looking at Iraq it becomes obvious that oil contracts are not being signed with Americans alone and that contracts are not being breached because i would punish the exporter first and foremost. There are enough sources to get gas and oil from but as Libya has nothing else to export, they will be keen on having valid contracts.The Lybians finally got rid of that power hungry criminal,Gaddafi.
I just wish they could've done it without NATO's help, NATO and the US got what they wanted now, they saw that Gaddafi was a loosing card,so they just let him go just like they did with Mubarak and sided with the revolution in order to protect their oil intrests.
And it's just yesterday that the revolutionaries said that they will respect the oil contracts signed during Gaddafi's rule.
So in the end,it's clear why the US intervened, it's to protect their intrests and oil mining contracts and not actually protect democracy and all that shit.
Poor democracy,how many battles are fought in your name
Goodluck to the Lybians,they're free now,i just hope they can get out of US influence.
Gaddafi was a "losing card" for the US? Since when have they been partners? The US had nothing to do with him. The situation is also completely different than with Mubarak. Mubarak has been an ally and he abandoned power without starting war against Egyptians. Gaddafi was not a partner and he started using military and mecenaries against his people. Having Mubarak fall and immediately recognizing the wish of the Egyptian people (nothing has changed really, the military is still deciding everything) was not a politically wise move but as people in the West have welcomed the wave of revolutions and supported it, Western governments were d'accord with them. Basically, the West went against its own security interest but not everything has to be reduced to money.
Gaddafi was never supported by the West, although he exported gas to France and Italy. But the initial movement had to be an inner-Libyan one. When it came to place, it was vocally supported by the West. When Gaddafi was about to suffocate it physically, especially having the context of North African revolutions and uprisings in 2011, the UN - incl. Russia and China - gave NATO the mandate to clean things up, which is rather normal than stand by the ide and watch a dictator murder his citizens.
The Gaddafi story is by far not over yet. Even when he will be ousted from power, he is still able to lead partizan war for some time (after all, the territory of Libya is large). But it's a matter of time.
Next in line will be Syriabut there will be no military engagement. Syria under Assad is becoming increasingly unpopular in the Arabic world, so imho the day of the elites to drop him in order to save their own interests (and lives) is not far away. What Assad is doing now is the best way to silence and weaken Hezbollah, to isolate Iran. A military engagement would quickly trigger a broader cnflict with Hezbollah and Hamas coming into the play. In order to put an end to it it would be an all-out war, not only on Syrian soil. At the same time, the number of murdered people in Syria is already four digit and the whole world has not done anything but say word so far, which is a shame.
burnstein
@ goga78
Just a friendly suggestion. Since you feel obliged to answer to any single post in this thread (nothing blamable about that), try to express your thoughts more briefly. At the end, none will care to read your huge posts. Perhaps, this is already the case.
ps I still care, but I have plenty of time and patience. Probably I'm the exception.
Who are you to judge?
Love when some start talking about something he doesnt know a thing.
It was same thing, check Račak incident, where Albanians staged masacre by Serbs, even it was all members of terrorists organisation that died in fights with Serbian police, and they just moved them there to look like they are civilans, it was proved by three forensic examinations. That fake masacre started that NATO bombing, again started with a lie, nothing strange, thats their method. Its not strange for u that Serbs were big majority at the begining of 20th century 80>20%, and now Albanians are over 90% and Serbs only under 10%, yes nothing strange again, just to think who really committed ethnic cleansing. Yes Milosevic did some pretty nasty shit there, but thats no reason for NATO to start something totally unnecessary, dont know how will bombing of factories (not military ones), hospitals, schools, bridges, residential buildings, TV stations, simple everything u can imagine, will help to resolve problem on Kosovo, it was big genocide, not "collateral damage" as NATO is calling every evil thing they are doing.
And than check United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244, which say that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia, and of course USA after that doing everything opposite helping Albanians (i mean saving their leaders from international courts and jail), they proclaiming independence against that resolution and Serbian constitution, USA and its puppet states supported that, note that this real independent nations as i said, that really respect international law, are doing totally opposite (only legitimate way) of USA and its we will do what we want policy.
Than comes arming of Croats that later committed complete ethnic cleansing of Srpska krajina, area where Serbs declared independence after Croatia separated from Yugoslavia, same did Serbs in Bosnia, after B&H illegal separation from YU, , strange how NATO not helping them fight for freedom huh. 90% of people fighting in this wars in Croatia and Bosnia were just Serbs who lived in this countries, not Milosevic army, they just defended themselves, some like Mladic or Karadzic for example did some bad things and made stupid decisions, and are now of course in jail, which is good, but crimes of Serbian side are much exaggerated, because all three sides had a similar number of casualties, and u cant blame one for everything.
Its to complex subject, and i cant say what i really want in english.
This is the age we are currently living in, where war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery is freedom.
Whole situation what really happened in Libya was explained in this report from one Serbian journalist Milovan Drecun, dont have subtitles, but in short explained that this rebels are actually Al Qaeda, that UN should first conduct a neutral investigation before approving NATO this no-fly zone. From witnesses from Derna (port in east Libya), they are saing that this rebels forcibly mobilized people, criminals freed from prison, killed everyone who was against, most of them hang in front of everyone in the square, they put snipers and shoot on people, so they think that army shoots at them, he told that everyone who were pro Gaddafi flee to Egypt or Tripoli etc.
especially look this NATO bombed residential area and non-government buildings in the end of video, and goga look closely at 24.26 thats special school for children with disabilities, thats under protection of UNESCO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUZe5NddA-M
Than look at famous green square, where he been, this was filmed in july, he said that he especially looked if people were there for propaganda or paid for that, but he said that people spontaneously gather there, and that their were suprised because not many foreign journalist come to record that.
Than again wintesses from Misrata talking same as this from derna, rebels came in town, shoot at everyone, raped womens, for three days destroyed whole town, people were killed in front of everyone on town squares, choped in several pieces (he looking that on pc), and saying that especially are racists and hate black libyans citizens, all were killed that were caught, look at this guy at 05:40 terrorists asked him why u shoot at us, and he answered we didnt, from Tripoli ordered us not to shoot. Than saying that NATO bombing everything, hospitals, schools, universities, mosques, and that he didnt find any real proof that Libyan army was commiting any crime, that they raped womens, killing civilans etc. Especially 15:15, where it was reported just day before on all world medias that rebels captured that town, turned out to be just a lie, its Zliten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhCZl...eature=related
U wont find similar report from any tv station in the world, especially ur precious western medias goga78.
Now its all over probably, NATO and their rats won, but just wanna show what was real situation, goga78 ur living in dream world man
Last edited by Carick235; 08-25-2011 at 05:42 PM.
This is the age we are currently living in, where war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery is freedom.
Goga, you know better that Gaddafi turned into an american puppet eversince the lockerbie bombings and the american campaign against Lybia.
And eversince up till the arabian wave or revolutions the americans were preaching the Lybian model and how Lybia turned from a bad terrorist funding state into a good country fighting terrorism ( i remmember their intervention in the abo sayyaf operation in the philipinesgaddafi payed millions to the terrorist for the release of the american detainees).
anyways, just like mubarak, gaddafi too was an american puppet, but it just goes to show how cheap amercia's allies are for the US governement.
Pls dont tell me that america helped oust gaddafi for the love of democracy
gaddafi was not american puppet in any way, stop with this crap.
just for goga78
This is the age we are currently living in, where war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery is freedom.
I think you got him mixed up Musharraf. You can tell by the different reactions Obama and co. had to the revolts.
Musharraf was UN and Arab league puppet. Notice their different reactions to the revolts
The Moon Is A SCAM(http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm)!
They say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Yeah, right.
Tripoli City Center Not Under Rebel Control
http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=628301
This is the age we are currently living in, where war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery is freedom.
Wait, you telling me with all the billions that the U.S. gave him - I mean Egyptian people - that he wasn't a U.S. puppet?!?
What's the C.I.A. up to then?!? This is an outrage!
As mentioned in my post with that report from Libya, where one refugee from Derna said that rebels free criminals from prisons, here's proof:
This is the age we are currently living in, where war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery is freedom.
http://www.newsdawn.net/press/?p=1292
Western TV in Libya: Silencing, falsifying, and frankly, lying
“We are under the impression that it is the Soviet TV we are working at. Everything is censored, everything is to be approved by the London office. We’ve been filming Tripoli, the district controlled by the rebels: bodies of dead people in civilian clothes, unarmed, but bearing marks of torture. We sent the picture over to the office. Then we see it broadcast with the captions: “People of Tripoli killed by Gaddafi’s army”.
The next thing I do is, I’m calling the office, saying: in that district there is no Gaddafi army, it’s all controlled by the jihadists. They respond: “We know better!” And it’s like that all the time,” said a Russian stringer working for a mainstream TV company in Tripoli.
According to him, “nobody is interested in what is really happening”.
“In Tripoli, everything is upside down, it’s total anarchy. There are check-points everywhere, and IDs are checked so carefully that you are misled into thinking they might know English. But when you start speaking, they just stare at you blankly. There’s a soldierly European dressed as a local, attached to almost every squad. If the ID looks suspicious, he is asked to re-check it. And it is he who makes the final decision whether to let you in further, or turn you down. It’s somewhat surprising that none of them carry the usual M-16 rifle, but a Kalashnikov“, the reporter says.
According to him, now it’s either jihadists, or armed European-looking people who are in command in Tripoli. “They seem to understand each other perfectly, though”, he adds.
“Nobody takes care of the city, there are corpses in the streets already decomposing, but nobody takes them away. There is a spot virtually saturated with blood next to each of the jihadists’ check-points, but surely, you cannot film it. Nobody is going to buy such a picture.
Yesterday we were about to go to Sirte, as the office had asked us to film the rebel victory over the Colonel’s native city. We were not let in, of course, there were the same “Europeans” standing there. But you could distinctly hear NATO aircraft flying, bombing. It seems like they’re leveling the city to the ground.
So, what we did was, we asked some “clowns” in Tripoli suburbs to pose for the cameras for $50. The office was happy. Our picture went on air with the caption “Battle for Sirte”, the reporter says.
We would not name our colleague who is now in Tripoli. Judging by his words – and there is simply no motif for him to tell a lie – there might be more to it than the simple loss of a well-paid job.
This is the age we are currently living in, where war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery is freedom.
This is the age we are currently living in, where war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery is freedom.
From beginning truth is on my side, and everything is right as i said. Listen this and wake up:
Some brainwashed rebel:
This is the age we are currently living in, where war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery is freedom.
More facts:
Just to show to people like goga78, so they can see what is really happening, at least i have internet to spread truth.http://www.rense.com/general93/truth.htm
The Truth About Libya
Colonel Muammar Gadaffi is frequently referred to in the media as a "mad dictator" and "bloody tyrant", but do these allegations accord with the facts?
Libya consists of over 15O tribes, with the two main groups, the Meghabra living in Tripolitania in the west and the Wafallah living in Cyrenaica in the east. Previous attempts to unite these tribes by the Turkish (1855-1911) and ltalian {1911-43) colonial rulers failed and the country was split in two for administrative purposes.
Oil was discovered in Libya in 1959, but King ldris of the Senussi tribe allowed most of the oil profits to be siphoned into the coffers of the oil companies. The coup d'etat on 1 September 1969 led by Colonel Gadaffi had countrywide support. He subsequently married a woman from the royal Barqa tribe and adroitly unified the nation.
By retaining Libya's oil wealth for the benefit of all its people, Gadaffi had created a socialist paradise. There is no unemployment, Libya has the highest GDP in .Africa, less than 5% of the population is classified as poor and it has fewer people living below the poverty datum line than for example in Holland. Life expectancy is 75 years and is the highest in Africa and I0% above the world average.
With the exception of the nomadic Bedouin and Tuareg tribes, most Libyan families possess a house and a car. There is free health care and education and not surprisingly Libya has a literacy rate of 82%. Last year Gadaffi distributed $500 to each man, woman and child (population 6.5 million).
Libya has a tolerable human rights record and stands at 61 on the International Incarceration Index, comparable with countries in central Europe (the lower the rating, the lower the standing - the USA occupies the no.1 spot!). There is hardly any crime and only rebels and traitors are dealt with harshly.
Anyone who has read Gadaffi's little Green Book will realize that he is a thoughtful and enlightened leader. Libya has been accused of having committed numerous acts of terrorism in the past, but many of these have been perpetrated by foreign intelligence agencies as false flag operations - the Lockerbie bombing being a prime example.
The CIA and MI6 and their frontmen have been stoking up dissent in the east of the country for almost 30 years. Libya produces exceptionally high quality light crude oil and its production cost of $1 a barrel, compared to the current price of $115, is the lowest in the world.
Riba (usury) is not permitted. The Central bank of Libya is a wholly-owned by the Libyan Government and is run as a state bank, issuing all government loans free of interest. This is in contrast to the exploitative fractional reserve banking system of the West. The no-fly zone and the bombing of Libya have nothing to do with the protection of civilians. It is an act of war * a blatant and crude attempt by the oil corporations and international bankers to steal the wealth of Libya.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=lXLQAUUpJwU
http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=628448
This is the age we are currently living in, where war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery is freedom.
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