"New generation"
"Mixed national team"
Hold up, hold up, SFOriginally Posted by Straight forward
You have some point here, but it doesn't deny the fact that Songaila didn't have any experience in major tournaments and went straight to OLYMPICS. I don't remember if Šiška was a part of 1999 Eurobasket team, but I think he started his NT career also in Olympics. I mentioned Šaras only because he still wasn't a leader back than - so making him player No.1 of entire NT was brave move also. If that is not enough we can look at this summer - Jonas Valančiūnas. He was great against Germany and that game was crucial. Tell me Valančiūnas was provenYet he did a very good job and Kemzura obviously made a right move. My point here is - Olympics or any other tournament can be a great place for some young talents to start their NT career. And I don't have a goal to see youngest NT, I want to see the strongest
To Straightforward
Ofcourse teoretically you can start your new generation at every tournament.But in 2000 kazlauskas did that because he didnt have other choose.We lost leaders Sabonis and Karnisovas,ilgauskas that summer said we will play and once again wasnt...so kazlauskas made young and upcoming players + zalgiris eurloeague champions mix of 1999 ,it wasnt that he take youngs players from lkl you know and won bronzeIt doesnt work like that... Half of that team were euroleague champs !
Nobody from that team expected anything (2010 were same case) and what hapend when lietuva was expecting medal in 2001 from same young group? Look at serbias young guns what happend when all teams brought they best players last year? ... play under presure and with no presure is way diferent experience.
Young players that is already at level of national team like valanciunas no doubt should be on the team.Other 3 motiejunas,seibutis,gecevicius case of last summer,i think kemzura did one mistake seibutis should be on the team instead of delininkaitis(we missed fast and big guard you could guard fast opponents guards liek mclabeb).About motiejunas and gecevicius even now i think it was right choose.In those positions those 2 players wouldnt make us better.Look at the game agains macedonia,there were tough strong and play psysical basketball all game.If Valanciunas couldnt do anything against those strong bigs,so motiejunas wouldnt help neither.Versus macedonia what players we miss most,yeah it was our two bulls (Linas and Jonas) in my mind no doubt they would made a diference in rebounding game that we lost...
After this very superb Motiejunas year i feel he are preprared for national team.Seibutis should be there too,about gecevicius he is at level of our national team,but sg pocius,kaukenas,seibutis are better players all around and i dont see place for him.
So lets back to the topic, MIXED NATIONAL SHOULD BE kemzura desicion in my eyes,because its proven method even yours mention 2000 lietuva version was like that...
I agree that either Seibutis or Gecevičius had to be instead of Delininkaitis in the team, though I disagree that Seibutis can guard McCalebb. Seibutis is not that fast and playing for different position. Such players should be stopped as T.Parker was stopped many times - team work (question for Kemzura here why their main guy was doing anything he liked).To Straightforward
Ofcourse teoretically you can start your new generation at every tournament.But in 2000 kazlauskas did that because he didnt have other choose.We lost leaders Sabonis and Karnisovas,ilgauskas that summer said we will play and once again wasnt...so kazlauskas made young and upcoming players + zalgiris eurloeague champions mix of 1999 ,it wasnt that he take youngs players from lkl you know and won bronze
Nobody from that team expected anything (2010 were same case) and what hapend when lietuva was expecting medal in 2001 from same young group? Look at serbias young guns what happend when all teams brought they best players last year? ... play under presure and with no presure is way diferent experience.
Young players that is already at level of national team like valanciunas no doubt should be on the team.Other 3 motiejunas,seibutis,gecevicius case of last summer,i think kemzura did one mistake seibutis should be on the team instead of delininkaitis(we missed fast and big guard you could guard fast opponents guards liek mclabeb).About motiejunas and gecevicius even now i think it was right choose.In those positions those 2 players wouldnt make us better.Look at the game agains macedonia,there were tough strong and play psysical basketball all game.If Valanciunas couldnt do anything against those strong bigs,so motiejunas wouldnt help neither.Versus macedonia what players we miss most,yeah it was our two bulls (Linas and Jonas) in my mind no doubt they would made a diference in rebounding game that we lost...
After this very superb Motiejunas year i feel he are preprared for national team.Seibutis should be there too,about gecevicius he is at level of our national team,but sg pocius,kaukenas,seibutis are better players all around and i dont see place for him.
So lets back to the topic, MIXED NATIONAL SHOULD BE kemzura desicion in my eyes,because its proven method even yours mention 2000 lietuva version was like that...
As for Gecevičius, he's showing in OLY that he can be useful with limited playing time and random role. That's improvement, IMO. And his defence is not that horrible as people think. If Kaukėnas is not recovered 100%, I see Pocius, Gecevičius, Seibutis as SG line up. Actually, I'm not so much in love with the idea to see Kaukėnas back.
As for Motiejunas, he proved he can play against any opponent this season. Including hell of defenders like Khryapa. It's speculation, but I think he's ready to play in NT and to have a decent role here. I don't know what Kemzura will do with Lavrinovic bros, but I'm tired to see them being pretty much useless in NT, since 2008 basically. Ksistof delivers for Siena, but always in trouble when playing for NT. Maybe it's tiredness, the lack of motivation, injuries, I don't know. Darjus is a center, but Valančiūnas is already to eat him alive, so basically he could compete with Javtokas, but we all know he's much more reliable in defence so centers' line up is very clear if no injuries - Jonas and Javtokas.
Actually everything is clear, except one question - will there be Šaras or not. I don't think question of Kaukėnas' participation changing things a lot. He never was a clutch player and different maker at the highest stage. In other words, he couldn't go that high as Šaras, Šiška, Kleiza did. Now the only real concern - will we have ready to go Kleiza and Mačiulis. These two bring NT to other level, not only skills wise, but also physically. Motiejunas also would make NT more athletic. Don't underrate his athleticism, he improved here radically last year and still has time till Olympics.
Hopefully no injuries and we'll have one of the most athletic and all rounded teams in Lithuanian NT history.
Last edited by Straight forward; 02-28-2012 at 11:50 AM.
The flick from the future...
I would not comment the parts about Motiejunas for obvious reasonsa bit
So you don't want our best player of last Eurobasket in NT? The player who till injury had probably the best season of his career in top EL team like MdP? C'mon... One could argue about his fitness on summer, but to tell now that he is not needed it's somekind of absurd. He is surely the best SG he have. Then comes Pocius. Then all others
It's all clear with Bros. They simply can't handle basketball marathon (season + NT). They needs a rest, full summer. They has huge will to play, motivation, but their bodies simply can't take it. I don't want to say "anymore", cause it was almost every year, one or another (both) is injured, need surgeries, are out for long period of time. So it's a big gamble to guess now what kind of state their bodies will be in almost a half year, especially when you don't know what tomorrow can bring. Healthy Ksystof surely is still NT material, no doubts, probably even the best PF we have. He still can have big numbers in limited time, decide the game and etc. And it's in EL title contender. Darjus... I don't know. With improved Valanciunas + Javtokas, it seems we have optimal Cs duo.
Again your words about Kaukenas... C'mon
Well, we had some users screaming and yelling about one club havin' the most athletic frontcourt in Europe... if you know what I meanIt's not the most important thing for sure. It's an advantage, but it can easily become handicap, if you don't know how to use it properly. Without too much athleticism we won Eurobasket and had arguably the best LT NT in history.
Why I'm sceptical about Kaukėnas. The guy is injured and most likely would come to NT without any playing experience and this summer we will need to start playing after few trainings and few friendly games. There's no time to come in shape and at this point we have players that are ready to go and to be effective. If he comes back sooner and will come in shape, I agree he's still the best SG we have. Why I think Kaukėnas' loss is not the biggest problem? Pocius can really deliver. And with more playing time I believe his impact can be not worse than Kaukėnas + we have very solid backups as Siebutis, Gecevičius.
I agree with you about brothers. In my opinion Kemzura should really think if it's worth to invite them, instead of giving them a rest. Sure 100% ready Ksistof is still elite PF and probably still best natural PF of Lithuania, but the last time he played really well was 2004.
Sure, Mindozas, I would gladly add young Šiškauskas and Šaras for the puzzle (or even current ones)
Last edited by Straight forward; 02-28-2012 at 03:40 PM.
The flick from the future...
Now you sound more reasonableSure, it all depends on how he will perform after such long period of time without playin', but it's not fair to write him-off before that. With his strenght, attitude/character, I'm quite sure he'll recover well no matter the age. If there'll be the case of substituting the player before Olympics - Kaukenas' case looks the most likely for that.
The only thing I won't agree, his loss would be surely noticiable. His experience, skills, mental strenght are very important to NT. Pocius might cope with Kaukenas' loss, but he still sooo unstable, though improving. Seibutis, Gecevicius... Well, they still have to prove a lot, so far they didn't convince me on NT level
Comon straighforward kaukenas is not somekind of role player...he is starter and very important player.And we all know how much work he puts in his body,i still remember very good when in 2010 mdp played agains rytas in euroleague i both games kaukenas easily outplayed gecevicius in both games.It was looking that gecevicius is 33 veteran he could be at the same foot speed level as Kaukenas
Even know Kaukenas at 35 is more athletical than gecevicius, not even close...Both are playing in simmiliar level teams and kaukenas is important player for md,gecevicius ir role player.
Rimantas in interview said i will do my best to recover myself for olimpics,i dont need any other words.This man gonna work his tale off every day 6-8 hours and he gonna be ready to play at the italian league finals...he proved that in 2008.I dont know any other harder working lithuanian player than Kaukenas.This is his secret that at age of 35 he is running like 25 year youngster...
60% of Kaukenas i will take any day over gecevicius (who too have some health isues btw right now).
About lavrinovic brothers maybe its time to say goodbye to them,even songaila played better last year.Agree that neither of 3 right now we need,we have eaquall younger replacements.But with jasikevicius,kaukenas,javtokas we dont...
i feel optimal version would be 3-4 veterans.
our 2008 was stronger team than 2010 no doubt.In 2008 they lost to argentina second game only because as some people involved said everything was putten on semifinal games against spain .We lost very close game and than its very hard to go and play bronze game,when your goal was final.in 2010 was diferent we lost semifinal wihtout any chance to win it.And in 2008 argentina was ofcourse stronger,younger and deeper(including manu and nocioni) than in 2010...Sometimes i feel you trying to put facts not in the right order to show something that isnt true
Last edited by Shawshank; 02-29-2012 at 12:32 PM.
one thing is obvious to me - Kemzura should make up his damn mind and choose whether he wants to go with young talented players or old mediocre ones. I don't wanna see Delininkaitis, Jankunas, Lavrinovic bros in the roster if we are to inject new blood into NT. They are all mediocre, old and and simply are no difference makers at the biggest stage. Motiejunas and Valanciunas is the future of our basketball and we should start treating these talented kids with respect at last. I don't care about all that crap like "experience" and "fitting into the team", because talent always wins and mediocrity always stumbles when the going gets tough.
What a futile discussion this is.
We need young blood- mainly Seibutis and Motiejunas who were omitted from last tournament.With Kleiza and Maciulis ready to play,there's not much to discuss about.We have enough players to not to worry about our over30.The only player to impact the rankings is Kaukenas-he can be bloody good if he is in form. And there is enough space for Jaska or one of the brothers to be number 9-12
Jankunas shoud be in, IMO. He and Motiejunas are the most consistent power forwards this season. Jankunas is a very decent role player and usually delivers in NT very well. He did that in 2010 and 2011. I think it's time to say thanks for brothers and Songaila and to have Kleiza, Motiejunas, Jankunas and Katelynas for competition at 4.
The flick from the future...
Jankunas is useless against tall athletic PF's, simply useless...
I know that green fans like to push their players into NT, but it's time to face reality - what did Jankunas do in NT to reserve a roster spot for him? I'd love you to justify his value, because his stats and contribution on court are questionable to say the least. He was nowhere to be seen against Macedonia in quarters and was useless against athletic and tall frontlines. We can insert any role player and get 5pts and 4 rebs out of him
If he is so useless, how come some time ago he raped the most athletic frontcourt in Europe?
did he?If he is so useless, how come some time ago he raped the most athletic frontcourt in Europe?
Al I saw was non-existant fouls in the beginning of the game on Roberts and from then on the game was already ruined, since no defense was allowed to play that day. And I thought we were talking about NT here, so why are green fans bringing up club level competition with all it's nuances?
Why are you so mad max?did he?
Al I saw was non-existant fouls in the beginning of the game on Roberts and from then on the game was already ruined, since no defense was allowed to play that day. And I thought we were talking about NT here, so why are green fans bringing up club level competition with all it's nuances?
Regarding bolded part:(previous post)I know that green fans like to push their players into NT
nobody is mad, my dear friend...Why are you so mad max?
Regarding bolded part: (previous post)
LKL and it's corrupt refs have nothing to do with FIBA game and how Jankunas does there. The better question is - why are green fans clinging onto club level competition in order to make an argument? Anyway, this is off-topic already and if you want to continue we can do it in cililized way elsewhere
Curruption, lies, bought refs, evil green fans with irrelevant arguments... paranoia. Oh well... facepalm.gif. I'm not sure if I want to continue it anywhere, but thnx a lot for proposition, my dear friend...nobody is mad, my dear friend...
LKL and it's corrupt refs have nothing to do with FIBA game and how Jankunas does there. The better question is - why are green fans clinging onto club level competition in order to make an argument? Anyway, this is off-topic already and if you want to continue we can do it in cililized way elsewhere
predictable reply from a patronizing poster...
I've made my point, while yours is smilie talk and other childish crap.
I guess I'm too old to resort to such "argumentation".
Bye
Jankunas is useless
Sure jankunas,maciulis,kalnietis all of them are useless butautas and kurtinaitis thought same way in 2009...kemzura had other in mind in 2010...And who was right i will let you max to decide
jankunas maybe didnt play his best game agains macadonia,but did one hell of play in the game 2+1 at the end when he puted us ahead 65-61...What did do athletic valanciunas against macadonia 5 tournavers in 10min? If you think that they pushed off jankunas and valanciunas all game,and suddently our softest pf motiejunas would make a diference in that game your are crazy or definetely do not understand game of basketball ;]
Suddenly Macedonia is the most athletic team around and we considering who would be strong enough not to be pushed around by these monsters. Come on guys, you can't be serious. Whole plan didn't work and Lithuania played bad in different categories. And yes theoretically Motiejunas could make difference in that game, because we were struggling with the buckets and he is great offensive player even if still developing.Jankunas is useless
Sure jankunas,maciulis,kalnietis all of them are useless butautas and kurtinaitis thought same way in 2009...kemzura had other in mind in 2010...And who was right i will let you max to decide
jankunas maybe didnt play his best game agains macadonia,but did one hell of play in the game 2+1 at the end when he puted us ahead 65-61...What did do athletic valanciunas against macadonia 5 tournavers in 10min? If you think that they pushed off jankunas and valanciunas all game,and suddently our softest pf motiejunas would make a diference in that game your are crazy or definetely do not understand game of basketball ;]
The flick from the future...
I think if Motiejunas played, we may have won the game. Songaila's statistics were atrocious - 29 minutes of playing time, 12 points, 43% inside the arc, 2 rebounds, 1 turnover and 3 personal fouls. His turnover at the end was really stupid. It's a goodbye for him.
We were also struggling with three-pointers. I think Seibutis and Gecevicius or Kaukenas would fix all that.
What worries me is that Maciulis is playing only in LKL and BBL. He won't have any experience playing in those prestigious European competitions. Hope that doesn't hinder him too much.
If we meet Macedonia again (and there's a chance that we will during Olympics qualification), we will need to shut down McCalebb defensively. I think Pocius and/or Kalnietis should guard him (Kaukenas would be even better).
Kaukenas is a good player. He's fast and has high basketball IQ. He doesn't take random shots unlike some other SGs, hence his high 3PT shooting percentage. He shot 78% in Eurobasket from 3PT and 64% in Euroleague. Plus he has experience playing alongside McCalebb. Kaukenas could be a great accessory to this team. I hope he recovers. But we have decent back-ups, so I'm not worried.
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