I sincerely hope that both youngsters - Valanciunas and Motiejunas -will refuse to play for NT unless this clown is finally gone as a head coach...Motiejunas has already had enough of this "coach", now it's time for Jonas to show some of his character too. Playing 7 minutes per game and substituting such "greats" of the game like Kavaliauskas is not what any respectable NBA player should conform to.
C'mon fellas, let the "superior" players like Jankunas and Javtokas lead our NT and we'll see just how well everything goes...
Last edited by madmax; 08-20-2012 at 04:04 PM.
Well, I wouldn't agree more with Kurtinaitis in this article.
Balčiūnas I think is a good manager, but he protects his work no mater what. Last year federation tried to cover a failure and from this article I can see that Balčiūnas does the same again. Just openly say that it's not the result Lithuanian NT team expected, no matter the reasons. I think Balčiūnas forgets it's Lithuanian basketball we are talking here, not some kind of business enterprise. I'm waiting for federation decision, hopefully they will do the right thing. Rotation is needed, otherwise we're out of basketball elite.
BTW, Kurtinaitis openly criticize Balčiūnas and as far as I remember Kazlauskas wasn't happy about him - "Who is he? Can he make a free throw or what?
Since these two seems like the most solid and main contenders for the spot, Balčiūnas has no other choise as to be Kemzura's advocate no matter what.
The flick from the future...
Oh Max ,Max.Originally Posted by madmax
So you had one of them "back to the future " trips?
Hence you say that Valanciunas is?respectable NBA player
I think that results from last two years are neither bad or good.Well, I wouldn't agree more with Kurtinaitis in this article.
Balčiūnas I think is a good manager, but he protects his work no mater what. Last year federation tried to cover a failure and from this article I can see that Balčiūnas does the same again. Just openly say that it's not the result Lithuanian NT team expected, no matter the reasons. I think Balčiūnas forgets it's Lithuanian basketball we are talking here, not some kind of business enterprise. I'm waiting for federation decision, hopefully they will do the right thing. Rotation is needed, otherwise we're out of basketball elite.
BTW, Kurtinaitis openly criticize Balčiūnas and as far as I remember Kazlauskas wasn't happy about him - "Who is he? Can he make a free throw or what?
Since these two seems like the most solid and main contenders for the spot, Balčiūnas has no other choise as to be Kemzura's advocate no matter what.
Grey area.
And people get confused.
Is it half empty or half full,the glass that is?
We have achieved the minimum,and nothing else.
All i know that we have to improve.
We have to be looking forward and evaluating everything that can hog us down.
And i mean everything and everyone.
Just look up for British track cycling manager.
He went so far as for pillows people sleep on,etc.And probably toilet rolls them cyclist wipe their asses too.Let alone diet,training etc etc etc.
As for results,he got nearly everything right.So lets get and imply his attitude.
And i hope that Sabonis can be progressive too,as a head of the federation.
So let me put it this way - good GM,and Balciunas is not even that, is not good enough for us,lets get the best one there is.
Lets get better supporting staff too.
Lets get more money for team preparation .
How about that?
8 place in Olympics can't be half fool glass (that's the worst record, someone like it or not). Open remarks about the gold from Garastas before the Eurobasket 2011 doesn't look like half fool glass after finishing at 5th.
Yeah why not? I would gladly see some hight quality specialists in Lithuanian NT staff. But the least we could do is to find a good coach. Lithuanian federation will say we're happy being average if they will resign with Kemzura.
The flick from the future...
Well, i don't believe Kazlauskas, Kurtinaitis or foreigner will come. So in this case it's really a tough question. Nevertheless, i'm sure we need a new coach, but i guess Kemzura will stay.
Well Lithuanian NT staff is conservative - they would barely go for foreigner. Kazlauskas might be bored, tired or lacking motivation (some other plans), I wouldn't be suprised. But what's wrong with Kurtinaitis - he seems to be very into NT stuff and ready to talk about it any time? I think he has motivation to be a head coach.
The flick from the future...
He regularly criticizes LKF. And it's not known if he would like to coach NT and if LKF would like to see him (see the first sentence). As for foreigner, i just don't believe. What is more, i'm not sure if there is really good one who would like to coach out NT and who would suit to out kitchen. I don't think we could find out "Blatt".
He was a candidate after the disaster in Poland, even with Balciunas at the LKF general secretary post. They might not see him, but I'm sure he wants to be the head coach someday.
Anyways, unlike Kemzura, Kurtinaitis sets goals for his teams. If they don't reach the semifinals, then they are punished. Even Butautas had goals - "if the team doesn't make the Eurobasket [2009] quarterfinal, I will step down as the coach." And Kemzura? "I'm 8th in the Olympics, but I'll see if I want to continue my career on the national team."
i still can figure out some lithuanian fans.So doesnt matter that in 2012 year lietuva didnt have top4 team in world,they still have to be in top4 because we are lietuva and we always was there ? You can put phil jackson and obradovic as our coaches.But would they beat Usa,Spain,France,Russia,Argentina of 2012,with lithuanian tallent we have in 2012 ? Everybody have to understand all teams have bad and good years,its impossible to be on the top in every olimpic games.Just because players are getting older and not every olimpic circle you produce world class tallent.Some of our players was too old to win medal,some was too young and only 1/3 of team was ready to win...Result isnt good but it isnt fiasco either.I see lietuva 2012 was worse than those 5 teams i mentione,so it would be little bit of magic like 2010 to lietuva be in top4,when your players and your playing level wasnt there with those 5 teams.France team in my eyes was even 3rd best team in olimpic (they won agains russia in 2011,and against argentina in 2012),but spain (2best team) dirty tricks killed them.So what to say, when 6-7 nba players from france ended in same category as we 5-8? Fiasco,catastrophe? they had better players than we had.
If you are making replaces firstly find the REPlACEMENT ! not fire kemzura and then think.Federation must try their best with kazlauskas and kurtinaitis,they are the only ones,that could bring something better than kemzura.If you just fire kemzura and than give head coach job to somekind lkl coach its just stupid...
Yeah, that's corrent. That's the attitude and I would say it is exactly like it should be. Even if we would make an assumption (still very debatable) that Lithuania wasn't exactly among top 4 teams talent wise. We are basketball country and that would be laughable if we would go with mediocre aims and goals. Aim for highest goals to get the best you can. Lithuania has everything: history, traditions, infrastructure, talents, great Youth BB results. We should aim to be an elite NT no matter vacillation of our rosters, talent. And Lithuanian coaches should learn one lesson - it's a results that counts and not alibi. Kazlauskas knew this rule, even Butautas knew it. He didn't complain "I didn't have Jasikevičius, Kaukėnas and Šiškauskas and it's the shift of generations" after 2009 Eurobasket.
Again, Balčiūnas groaning that Šaras, Kaukėnas were tired. He's groaning that Lithuania was lacking bigs. It was Kemzūra's decision to go with veterans and to leave Motiejūnas or Gecevičius as "the last in this world options". The result is bad and no matter the reasons you should go fella. 8th fucking place and we should be happy about it because we didn't have 6-7 NBA players? We never had them and you probably know our Olympic history
France never was a basketball country and I would bet my ass never will. They have footblall and many other sports.
The flick from the future...
And few more things:
-Even if I would agree that Kemzura reached very objective results in last two years (which I'm not), wouldn't it still be unreasonable to leave the same coach with the weight of the loses? (Even if it wasn't complete fiasco, it wasn't success by any means). Is it possible that this history wouldn't affect his job in upcoming years? No it's not. Hire new coach, he will learn Kemzura's mistakes, but he won't have the pressure.
-And more importantly - we saw enough how Kemzura treats young players and how he is able to bring new talents on the table. He appeared to be one of the most reactionary coaches we ever had. And we are talking here exactly about ability to bring new team - about new Olympic cycle. It wasn't even Kemzura's words- "I'm not sure if I want to work for new Olympics cycle", it's media let him know it's new freakin' Olympic cycle and things should be changed. He was just saying "I'll think if I would like to continue". No there's no need of this continuation...
The flick from the future...
Yeah, that's corrent. That's the attitude and I would say it is exactly like it should be. Even if we would make an assumption (still very debatable) that Lithuania wasn't exactly among top 4 teams talent wise. We are basketball country and that would be laughable if we would go with mediocre aims and goals. Aim for highest goals to get the best you can. Lithuania has everything: history, traditions, infrastructure, talents, great Youth BB results. We should aim to be an elite NT no matter vacillation of our rosters, talent. And Lithuanian coaches should learn one lesson - it's a results that counts and not alibi. Kazlauskas knew this rule, even Butautas knew it. He didn't complain "I didn't have Jasikevičius, Kaukėnas and Šiškauskas and it's the shift of generations" after 2009 Eurobasket.
Again, Balčiūnas groaning that Šaras, Kaukėnas were tired. He's groaning that Lithuania was lacking bigs. It was Kemzūra's decision to go with veterans and to leave Motiejūnas or Gecevičius as "the last in this world options". The result is bad and no matter the reasons you should go fella. 8th fucking place and we should be happy about it because we didn't have 6-7 NBA players? We never had them and you probably know our Olympic history
France never was a basketball country and I would bet my ass never will. They have footblall and many other sports.
Great post and right in the bulls eye, as they say...
How come we never needed those multiple NBA players before? We had 0 of them in Sydney 2000 and probably should have beaten arrogant yanks for the first time anywayBut now we are simply not good enough? That's a load of BS, if you fellas will excuse my language
I do not think that replacing Kemzura will change things.
As if ,by some magic ,another coach would had gotten more out of this ageing team.
This thing we are chasing here is just wrong.
Who should be next one,who should had been instead.
Wrong.
We need better players too,right?
Not just a coach.
So how about we point fingers at our federation and ask them about our youth development ?
What happens after they get past 20?
They are just damn forgotten,that what happens.
BECAUSE there are no medals to win.
Think about it.
they are rotting and picking their noses on the bench of LKL teams - that's what happens my dear friend
Because nobody cares about actually developing them into senior players, while club owners can buy cheap americans to fill in the roster spots. Only exceptional prodigies like Motiejunas and Valanciunas are able to bruise their way into men's game, and that is only because their talent is undeniable. Others simply get no chance to play, learn form their mistakes and improve...this is our current sad basketball reality
It's good now we have "Baltai". A good place for youngsters. The problem is that both Žalgiris and Rytas could trust youngsters more. However good prospects find their way to Žalgiris and Rytas. Look at current NT: Kalnietis, Pocius, Mačiulis, Jankūnas from Žalgiris. Rytas: Valančiūnas, Jasaitis, Javtokas, Kaukėnas, Jasikevičius. Gecevičius also was very good player for Rytas even if Kemzura doesn't like him.they are rotting and picking their noses on the bench of LKL teams - that's what happens my dear friend
Because nobody cares about actually developing them into senior players, while club owners can buy cheap americans to fill in the roster spots. Only exceptional prodigies like Motiejunas and Valanciunas are able to bruise their way into men's game, and that is only because their talent is undeniable. Others simply get no chance to play, learn form their mistakes and improve...this is our current sad basketball reality
I agree there is a problem with youngsters' transition to men's basketball in Lithuania, but not as big as it might look. In other words, such players as Janavičius, Vasiliauskas should blame themselves as well. They simply couldn't bring something on the table when they had a chance. Exceptional talents are able to do that.
The flick from the future...
Exactly that we lietuva won medals without having many nba players and nobody in the world could understand how?.What was our secret?Do we ourself understand it ? Maybe because once we had Sabonis and Marciulionis,maybe because we had jasikevicius and Siskauskas true leaders?They could win games for us on their own...Do we have leader in 2012? kleiza? is at best as once karnisovas was for our national team...Right now we miss very importantant integredent we dont have lithuanian kirilenko or lithuanian gasol... why nobody for our younger generation players didint step in 2011 with macedonia or 2012 with russia or puertuco,believe or not those veterans were trying to step up and our younger players didnt have leadership or balls to do that...2011 macedonia javtokas played very well,2012 puerturico jasikeviicus and songaila,2012 russia kaukenas..strange but im showing fact...and NOBODY SAID THAT for LIETUVA WAS ENOUGH 1/4 game,ofcourse not ! but im saying in this olimpics we werent in top4 by tallent.Why was that? i dont know,but its wasnt kemzura fault that we didnt have atleast one player level of parker,kirilenko,gasol,scola and others.You are making stupid argument and asking qauestion like that: when we need nba players to beat other nba palyers? TELL ME HOW MANY TIMES LIETUVA HAVE BEATED TEAMS WITH 6 OR MORE NBA PLayERS IN PAST in same team? There werent in past that teams had so many nba players (not include usa).THIS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY LEVEL IS GETTING BETTER,its not enough play like a team to win its not 1995 its 2012 nba players learn how to do that too...Our weakest place was not offence we could score points,we couldnt make stops! and you are reapeting same shit bring motiejunas and gecevicius if they were some kind defence specialist,they are like others were offensive players.IM REPEATING 100 TIME MOTIEJUNAS DIDNT COME HIMSELF THIS SUMMER! and gecevicius wasnt on the team because,pocius,seibutis and kaukenas are better sg than him.HOW MANY TIME I WILL HAVE YOU TO SAY THAT,that YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO REMEmBER THAT? every time you are crying how kemzura is bad in younger players developement,his job is coach men not teach young players.OK bring that gecevicus instead of kaukenas,bring motiejunas instead of songaila as you wanted before summer.DID LIETUVA would have FINISHed IN top 4 wiht them this summer? i could my money that NOT! im not even sure they would have win that game against puerturico,i like to see how motiejunas would guard Ramos,somewhere like jonas 5 fouls in 6 minutes?even kaukenas at 35 defence is no doubt better tha geceviciaus ever was... We had huge hole inside,and that happend because javtokas got injured 10 days before olimpic games.No way scola would score 30+ or russian dominating like that on eebounding if javtokas would have been there.He was huge piece our team we missed.WE had a chance with russia,we just miss one big body who wouldnt let mozgov with kaunas dominate with easy baskets inside.Yeah, that's corrent. That's the attitude and I would say it is exactly like it should be. Even if we would make an assumption (still very debatable) that Lithuania wasn't exactly among top 4 teams talent wise. We are basketball country and that would be laughable if we would go with mediocre aims and goals. Aim for highest goals to get the best you can. Lithuania has everything: history, traditions, infrastructure, talents, great Youth BB results. We should aim to be an elite NT no matter vacillation of our rosters, talent. And Lithuanian coaches should learn one lesson - it's a results that counts and not alibi. Kazlauskas knew this rule, even Butautas knew it. He didn't complain "I didn't have Jasikevičius, Kaukėnas and Šiškauskas and it's the shift of generations" after 2009 Eurobasket.
Again, Balčiūnas groaning that Šaras, Kaukėnas were tired. He's groaning that Lithuania was lacking bigs. It was Kemzūra's decision to go with veterans and to leave Motiejūnas or Gecevičius as "the last in this world options". The result is bad and no matter the reasons you should go fella. 8th fucking place and we should be happy about it because we didn't have 6-7 NBA players? We never had them and you probably know our Olympic history
France never was a basketball country and I would bet my ass never will. They have footblall and many other sports.
You talking we are baskteball country .OK we are...and now tell me other basketball country and tell me their results in olimpic games? please im waiting or you will begin nonsenses that we lietuva are the only basketball country in the world? Serbia ? Croatia? i remember they were basketball countrys 15 years ago,what place did they made in 2012 olimpic games? wake up boy and see reality.TO BE IN OLIMPIC GAMES FROM EUROPE SIDE ITS SHOWS WE ARE STILL IN BASKETBALL ELITE! nobody says that results was ok,no it wasnt because as you said we have demand for more BUT WE hAVE TO UNDERSTAND TOO ITS GETTING HARDER...,but its wasnt that suddenly we forget how to play basketball.Even 1992 our bronze team failed even to make eb 1993? so what? did somebody put them in jail because of that? no ,it was painfulls but everybodys understand its sport everyhthing can happen.Garastas was left as a coach and what happend then? later those same guys won silver in next tournament...Dont compare humilating butautas performance in 2009 with 2012,this summer was way better than 2009 not even close...In 2009 we out play only bulgaria...greece and puertucio is little bit better teams,who went home before olimpic games started.Its would be different if we would made olimpic from assia or like australia (outplaying only new zealnd).But Lietuva manage to beat very strong teams in basketball like turkey,greece,serbia,croatia,puerturico with multiple players from nba and so on.And i didnt hear that kemzura will stay,why should he say im quit with nationla team,when hes contract is over anyway ? he is not coach of national team no more,his job ended after game with russia.Nad Now federation will decide who will be next coach,if they will decide to leave kemzura and offer him other contract ,i dont see any failures by kemzura.He tryed his best and its ended how it ended,now desicion is not on kemzura.
Look at 1992 level,when there were only 10 countrys playing basketball professionally,and now in 2012 when their even nigeria or tunisia begun to play in high level.Remember what Jasikevicius said about gettint to olimpic games,and he knows better than i or you about develop of basketball BECAUSE HE PLAYED THERE AND Sees WHAT IS HAPPENING... getting harder and harder,not because we forget how to play.BECAUSE TO FIND TALLENTs From 3 millions and win against many time bigger countrys which begun their basketball programs to develop for last decade.10 years from now its gonna be even harder,you will see.I could bet lietuva wont qualife atleast for one olimpics or 2016 or 2020 .Tell me how you jugde slovenias coach malkovich or serbia ivkovic performances in this olimpic games? do they have worse players than kemzura did? WAKE UP ITS Not 1995!!! SPORT DEVELOPMENT overall is huge in last 15 years...We still gonna suprise time after time,but i doubt there be a circle when lithuania will win more than one medal in 4 years circle.You say Valanciunas,Motiejunas is our future leaders? maybe,but will they be players in 2013-2016 who will lead our team? centers at 20-25 are still young and not enough experienced and most likely not enought body strenght as big bodys inside need. i hoping from them more that they would be able to dominate in 2016-2020 as gasol brothers if you ask me...i truly would be suprised if lithuania win more than one medal in 2013-2016...I dont see leader that could lead this team.
1992-1995-1996 was our golden years,we had stars and other countrys didnt develop basketball.how it went form there ? 1997-2000--> one medal...2001-2004 one medal...2005-2008 one medal...2009-2012--> one medal ! fact shows that kemzura wasnt that bad,he did same job as kazlauskas,sireika,butautas...
Sorry but Jasikevicius word about qualifing to olimpic games for me is way more bigger factor,than your or that crazy max crying about kemzura.It juts sick hear same nonsense we are basketball country we must,biggest part of such people understands shit about sport development and overall going further.How do think its easier to prepare one basketball team from 3 millions people,or prepare 3 teams in 3 different team sports from 50millions in 10 years perriod? its just question fot thoughts...
Last edited by Shawshank; 08-22-2012 at 12:24 PM.
Shawshank, did you see what Kemzura did during timeouts?
"Hey! Hey! Hey..." and half the timeout was wasted thus.
Saras wasn't even paying attention to Kemzura; he was talking to a teammate. "Sarai? (Saras keeps talking for another 5-6 seconds). Sarai, look..."
"Hey, who are you defending? Sarai, are you defending Chris Paul? Okay..."
"All right, let's run zone defense." (pauses and thinks for about 6-7 seconds).
That's not what we should be hearing during timeouts. These are signs of a BAD coach. We need a professional coach who can think on his feet quickly and change strategy according to a situation. Also, we need a coach that can get all of the players to listen to him.
Well I hope they show up and play regardless of who the coach is. Once again Max it seems to me as if you're motivated primarily by your hatred of Kemzūra as opposed to any love of Lithuanian basketball. And it's not just about the results Kemzūra has achieved; you were expressing severe dislike for him even prior to Eurobasket 2011.
I agree with Shawshank overall. This Team Lietuva had just sufficient talent to be competitive with the very best teams in the world, but it lacked the talent to win a medal playing against these teams. There were very serious weaknesses at both center, particularly defensively, and PG, and neither Motiejūnas nor Gecevičius would have solved them. And the other teams are just getting tougher and tougher. It's extremely difficult for a country such as Lithuania relying on simply its basketball tradition to keep pace.
I'm not convinced that Kemzūra has the answer - and is therefore the answer at coach though. But I don't know who would be a better coach.
Now that I know a bit more about Kurtinaitis, I don't think he is the answer either. Kurtinaitis' fans say that his strengths are motivation and young player development. Well these don't translate well to the national team level.
First of all, the players are already highly motivated. They've given up their summers for the country. They're not just there to draw a paycheck. What additional motivation can the coach provide?
Secondly, Kurtinaitis only has a few weeks with these players, far too short a period of time to develop young players. The youngsters already have to be ready to play by the time national team camp rolls along. Kurtinaitis doesn't have the luxury of months to bring them along until their games blossom!
What the team needs is a coach who's an excellent judge of talent, can mold a team out of disparate talents, and is a superb tactician who can both design a system to take the fullest advantage of the mix of talents he has available and can design game plans best suited to the opponent of the day, and who can quickly recognize the modifications that need to be made to this plan once the game is underway. Is that Kurtinaitis then? I don't know.
I agree! But what's the answer? It seems that all the teams in the LKL press to be allowed to field teams with more foreigners, not less.they are rotting and picking their noses on the bench of LKL teams - that's what happens my dear friend
Because nobody cares about actually developing them into senior players, while club owners can buy cheap americans to fill in the roster spots. Only exceptional prodigies like Motiejunas and Valanciunas are able to bruise their way into men's game, and that is only because their talent is undeniable. Others simply get no chance to play, learn form their mistakes and improve...this is our current sad basketball reality
Last edited by Hepcat; 08-22-2012 at 08:30 PM.
It's getting funny how much most of IBN Liths underate Motiejunas. You can like him or not, he can be 4 or 5, but he was a beast last season compared to any Lithuanain BIG (except maybe Valančiūnas who showed some flashes of greatness). I wouldn't exaggerate saying that Songaila (best big in Kemzura's team) looked like trash compared to Motiejūnas durring the season. The fact is that Lithuania didn't have one of the best BIGS in their lineup (not counting injured Javtokas). And before starting to speculate how Motiejunas is impotent to solve these problems Kemzura's team faced, we should have all best players in NT first. It's funny to listen how Lith fans complain about the lack of talent while Motiejūnas is still playing everywhere in this world, but the NT. Sorry, but it's completely funny no matter what role and impact Motiejunas could bring for this team.
And one more thing. So you're saying you don't know a thing about Kurtinaitis and you still come and say you don't think Lithuania has any better coaches than Kemzura? And even still giving some knowledge about Kurtinaitis?
"What the team needs is a coach who's an excellent judge of talent, can mold a team out of disparate talents, and is a superb tactician who can both design a system to take the fullest advantage of the mix of talents he has available and can design game plans best suited to the opponent of the day, and who can quickly recognize the modifications that need to be made to this plan once the game is underway. Is that Kurtinaitis then? I don't know."
Well, I don't know if Kurtinaitis can do that, but I really know Kemzura couldn't do that in two most important tournaments for Lithuania since 2008.
The flick from the future...
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