Best non-USA National Team of the last 10 years?
What single non-USA team is the strongest of the last 10 years? There have been a number of great ones, so I wanted to see what everyone's opinion is.
Feel free to state a 'top 5' if you'd like. Also, be sure to include the year.
Argentina 02-04. by my opinion
Romeo Travis about Zadar coach Ante NazorRomeo Travis @RomeTrav
I said coach why we practice so much. He said God will bless us after all this hard work. How can I argue with that !
Greece 2005-06.European champion in 2005
and finalists in 2006 FIBA World Championship
(they eliminated the national team of USA).
I'll give you my top five...
1) 2005/06 Spanish NT
2) 2002-04 Argentine NT
3) 2002 Yugoslavian NT
4) 2005/06 Greek NT
5) 2003 Lithuanian NT
Spain and Argentine
Spain 2007-...
Republic of FENERBAHÇE
Argentina 2002-2004
I am very sure about my 'medal winners'
Gold: Spain of 2006. They were great before and have great results after but it was 2006 when Spaniards were at their peak. One of the best basketball teams I've ever seen.
Silver: Argentina of 2002-2006. Golden generation of Argentinean bballers made up one of the best teams in the game's history bball IQ-wise. They also have a pretty good depth in those days (the thing that they are sadly missing for quite a some time as of now). It was them who gave brilliant Espana the toughest fight in 2006 - in one of the most exciting game I've ever witnessed, WC semifinals.
Bronze: Russia of the late 2000s - beginning of the 2010s. Call me a subjective fan but I just love this team's passing game, level of playing mode variations and overall spectacular style. Their highest achievement was in 2007 when they won European Gold in a wonderful maner with a buzzer-beater in the finals against the fresh from their 2006 domination hosts Spain who were the heavy favourites. But it was the beginning of 2010s when Russians finally find some depth in the roster and start to really blossom. Though Russian NT still is one of the worst teams considering their psychological stability and inability to cope with the pressure.
There is a definite distance between these three teams and other 'contenders'. But still there were some great teams representing other countries. I simply must mention Italy of 2003-2004, France of early 2000s before Tony Longoria came and ruined the whole thing (though they were mostly unable to get all their leaders altogether and were as psychologically unstable as Russians - hence rollercoaster performances) and (although definitely below the first two) Greece of 2005-2006, Lithuania of 2003-2004 and if we can slightly extend time period then also Serbia (back then still called Yugoslavia) of the very early 2000s.
These are my personal favourites
Spain 2006-2014 with Pau and Navarro leading the way.I hate them,but results says it all.
During the last decade it has to be:
1)Spain (their height was between 2006-2009) Best team in Europe since 2006, but they are past their zenith.
2)Argentina (2002-2004) Still very competitive
3)Greece (2005-2007) Suffered a lot from absent players between 2009 and 2012. Still a very good team.
4)Lithuania (2000-2004) They keep having respectable results.
5)Russia (2011- ) At their peak right now, but overal not as strong as the above teams are/were. At least not yet.
Then there is Yugoslavia which was the best team between 1997-2002, but they go too far back.
Russia, Greece, Serbia, Spain and France will be the best teams the coming five years.
PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011
I don't understand how Greeks (or not Greeks) come here and say Greece was better in 00's after humiliation in 2004 Olympics (I believe there was 40 points difference in that game for a minute). Even in 2007 Lithuania beat Greece in small final while theoretically Greece's leaders were younger and peaking.
There was 3 great teams in 00's except USA:
1-2 Spain, Argentina
3 Lithuania
Last edited by Straight forward; 10-07-2012 at 08:17 PM.
The flick from the future...
If I would follow your distorted logics then I must say something like that: I don't understand how some Lithuanians (and non-Lithuanians) come here ans say something positive about Lithuanian NT which was lead by Saras-Macas-Stombergas-Siska quartet 'cause exactly this team (aside from Arvydas) was 11th in the Eurobasket 2001 losing from Latvia with something like -20 in the knock-out stage game. Also Lithuania (though with non-optimal roster) was beaten by -17 in QF in Beograd-2005.Originally Posted by Straight forward
Even if you're talking about 2004 which was no doubt hugely successful for Lithuanian basketball you have shitty game including winning Angola with +5 difference and very questionable refereeing (Greece won +32), the game with PR was also kinda tense while Greeks blown Boricuas out of the water with +20 win. How can you rate a team which was playing evenly with Angola?
All this mumbling is a real nonsense because you can't rate a team on the one game's basis. Even results-wise Greece NT was victorious in EuroBasket 2005 and was second in WC 2006 upsetting in semis Team USA with Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Paul and Chris Bosh. Such a results in just pair of years were simply unreachable for Lithuania. And in my eyes Papaloukas-Diamantidis-Spanoulis-Fotsis were better than your Jasikevicius-Macijauskas-Stombergas-Siskauskas not to talk about role players where Greece has solid guys like Zisis or Kakiouzis while Lithuania was left with Gustas, Ginevicius, Praskevicius, Slanina, etc.
And the fact that you are putting your team like one of the three best in 2000s without mentioning a time period (2006 and 2009 were also ace?) completely outlines your huge bias. Patriotism is a good thing but you really need to get a life, man.
And the guy who pushes 2012 Russia to 00's trying to teach me some anti-patriotism!
It has nothing to do with one game argument - it was just example how good peacking Lithuania could be. Greece and probably Italy would be the teams that I would mention after Argentina, Spain, Lithuania. If you feel disappointed I didn't mention Russia, I'm very sorry, but that's how I see things.
Should I remind you Lithuania didn't have best players in 2005-2006? In 2005 Lithuania didn't have Šaras, Štombergas, Macijauskas, Eurelijus Žukauskas and Songaila. That's a whole starting 5. Basically the same happened in 2006. Not to take anything from Greece, they could beat us only when we didn't have our best players (2006), in all other cases (2004, 2007) Lithuania rocked the stage.
You mentioning Greece success in 2005-2006 when Lithuania and some other countries (that cares about Olympics first of all and not WC) had their B teams and forgeting that Lithuania was succesful in 2000, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008. You somehow remember only our performance in 2001.
As I understand Greece gets credit from beating kid's team - USA 2006. Off course, that's not in compare with Lithuania's win against peacking Tim Duncan and Iverson's USA 2004And the final of 2006...
So, Lithuania has more titles in 00's, full-rosters matchups equal 0:2 for Lithuania. For me that's arguments. And than again, I'm arguing with the guy who thinks Russia was the 3rd best team in 00's. I do need to get a life
PS: You're showing your ignorance about Lithuanian NT in every single post, so please better do not. Just to mention, after Šaras, Šiška, Macijauskas, Štombergas goes Songaila, Kaukėnas, E. Žukauskas, M. Žukauskas, K. Lavrinovič and not Gustas or Ginevičius. But off course, who could equaly compete with Euroleague's (?) legend Zisis...
The flick from the future...
I suspect there are really big problems with school education in Lithuania as you can't read and properly understand even the simple phrases in English. The question of the topic-starter was 'What single non-USA team is the strongest of the last 10 years'. The topic was started in September 2012, so the last 10 years don't constitute 00s. Are you really unable to see the difference?And the guy who pushes 2012 Russia to 00's trying to teach me some anti-patriotism!
You've pointed out that Greece lost to Lithuania in its optimal roster and that's why Greeks are stupid for bringing their team in this sort of conversation. But the reasonable opinion expressed by me that Greeks in their best pair of consecutive seasons (2005-2006) were slightly (but not drastically) better than Liths in their best pair of consecutive seasons (2003-2004) is a total blasphemy for you.
I am not feeling disappointed about your 'rating' of our NT as your strong anti-Russian bias are no secret for me
The peaking Lithuania was eliminated by Italy in Athens semis and then lost to the Team USA in the game that really mattered. Yes, they were better than hugely underperforming US in the Group stage but in that group stage Boricuas beat Team USA by 19 points (and not by 4) but suspiciously you're not talking about unrivaled Puerto Rico greatness. Greeks eliminated Team USA which has much better team chemistry and playing style than its 2004 version and before that elimination USA was playing in a very confident manner (once again unlike 2004).
Also the peaking Lithuania won Swedish EuroBasket when their starting position was similar to the Russian one in 2007 - being underestimated 'dark horse' with some young and perspective players.
Please give me some examples of the countries who 'don't care much about WCs' and have their 'B teams' in 2005 and especially 2006. Others than Lithuania. And I like your understanding of your ueber-great team's success in 2007 when champions were some atrocious Russian bench warmers. I'm not forgetting about Lithuanian successes. In fact, I mentioned its 2003-2004 team in my list.
Must I remind you that knock-out games and Group stage games are slightly different story? And two leaders of these 'kid's team' were 3rd and 4th in PPG in Athens (where they were still really young and much worse than two years ago).As I understand Greece gets credit from beating kid's team - USA 2006. Off course, that's not in compare with Lithuania's win against peacking Tim Duncan and Iverson's USA 2004
There was a one 'full-roster' matchup when both teams has its leaders in its prime - in 2007. In the mostly even game that can go either way really. So I don't know how much does it say about clear superiority of mighty Lithuanian NT against any other oppopnent aside from USA, Spain and ArgentinaSo, Lithuania has more titles in 00's, full-rosters matchups equal 0:2 for Lithuania. For me that's arguments. And than again, I'm arguing with the guy who thinks Russia was the 3rd best team in 00's. I do need to get a life
In a game that mattered - not in the group stage.
And I'm sad to disappoint you but Lithuania, Greece and Russia all won exactly 1 title in 2000s - it were EuroBaskets of 2003, 2005 and 2007 respectively. The only European teams which had won multiple TITLES in 2000s are Spain (2006, 2009) and Yugoslavia (2001, 2002). If we consider final appearances than Greece is better than Lithuania or Russia - it has two.
I'm just overreacting to your obvious overestimation of Lithuanian NT
P.S. BTW, I mentioned your team as one of the 'honorable mentions' so I don't understand what is this 'ignorance about Lithuanian NT' all about. I'm not rating it right behind Spain and Argentina? Yes, it's true but I think that any sane neutral person has enough obvious reasons for it.
P.P.S. By no accounts, I am a Lithuanian basketball hater as some guys like Saulius Stombergas, Rimas Kaukenas and Ksystof Lavrinovic in their prime were among my huge favourites.
I have different view, It's a small difference, but Lithuania 03-04 was better than Greece 05-06 and 2007 stands as a argument for that (Lithuania had way stronger tournament overall).
Lithuania won bronze and nearly beat great USA team in semis of 2000 Olympics. Saying that they were dark hourse in 2003 isn't exactly corrent.
It's hard to remember all absenties of 2006, but usually great ammount of stars skip WC or Eurobasket before WC. That's facts and I know some fans and specially some Greeks come reactionary about this. 2006 Spain had their best, Greece had their best, but I don't think that was the case with Serbia, Lithuania and some other teams...
Why exactly 2004 Greece wasn't a full-roster Greece? If Greece was too young for Lithuania in 2004, how than they became so dominant in 2005?
My bad. You know I meant awards/medals.
Good, I'm not against Russia or Greece either. I just don't think peaking Greece was better than peaking Lithuania in 00's. That's it. BTW, I think there's no doubt Russia at the moment has the best team since Sovient Union times. And seems like you might be even stronger in upcoming 4 years. Specially if you will keep your focus and team spirit.
The flick from the future...
Terorizer is the man cha cha
Do not take anything from Greece or other teams,but the real powers of 00s are teams wich took best places in 1999-2000 2003-2004 2007-2008 2011-2012.WHEN ALL BEST PLAYERS (95% of them) were playing.Simply myself i always felt bronze in 2007 is better achievement for us than 2010 WCbronze ...why? because in 2010 there were no gasol,no parker,no kirilenko,no nowitzky and so on.Stars these days are playing in preolimpic eurobasket and olimpic games.
Greece 00s and that slow defencef minded basketball had hard time against lithuanias fast and 3point basketball.They couldnt make us play in their slow style and lost 2 times without even leading in those games (2004 and 2007).They won against us in 2006 group after OVertime,when we played without 4-5 our best players and they played with all players.
young Saras+Siska+Macas 2003-2004 and greece slow peace basketball with papalukas,diamantidis was perfect macth up for us.AND YEAH I TOO CAN SAY LIETUVA 00s with their best players were stronger team than 00s Greece,fact shows that,Won Medal number and so on.
Greece just took advantage in the 2 championshiops when many great player missed 2005-2006.But they couldnt do nothing when all star were playing in 2004 2007 2008.
Returning to topic Spain was the best team other wasnt even close.
Lithuania in last decade 2000-2010 won 4 medal and made 6 semifinal games...
Russia in 2000-2010 won 1 medal and made 1 semifinal game + russia won 2medals in 2011+2012= 3 medals
Greece in 2000-2010 won 3medals and made 4 semifinal game
In 2000-2012 Lithuania won more medals than Greece or Russia.So to put us in 5 place behind those 2 teams therethically you can,but i dont think its correct.
LOL! Terrorizer is a funny man! Russia definitely achieved less than Lithuania during last decade, yes they have stronger team at the moment, but come on! First they won something was in 2007 EC, with help of naturalized player and luck with the schedule....
Greece? Well Shawshank's comment above shows medal count and semi count... Enough said!
ok, I think that we even managed to find some common ground with SF. Somitemies we agree, maybe more often we disagree but at least we started to keep it polite and opinionated.
I won't continue to argue (cause it could be endless and mostly goes up to a matter of personal taste differencies) - just want to add that almost all the teams in 2006 were in their full strength. Serbs just went on completely revamping their national team after disastrous home Euro-2005 and it was a reasonable thing to do.
And one more point.
Frankly speaking, I doubt your first point. Karasev-Bazarevich-Babkov-Fetisov-Mikhailov-Panov team of mid-90s was at the very least on par with this one.
But there are some much more aggressive and sadly misinformed Lithuanian basketball fans here. Don't wanna to go into the full-fledged debate with them so I'll just point out their most terrific factual mistakes.
I don't hate Lithuanian basketball. I can't call myself a fan of it as much as I am a fan of Spanish or Italian ones and I think that Lithuanian basketball power frequently gets overestimated for some reasons but I ain't a Lithuanian basketball hater. Read up my PPS in the previous post, btw.Terorizer is the man cha cha
I've pointed it out in some earlier posts (not in this topic, maybe in the one dedicated to Lithuanian NT) - in 1992-2012 Russia won 7 medals (1 gold, 3 silvers, 3 bronzes) in major internatrional competitions while Lithuania won also 7 medals (1 gold, 1 silver, 5 bronzes). So what's wrong with claiming the fact that Russia was the basketball power in the last 20 years? Considering results and medal count we obliged to say that both Russia and Lithuania were basketball powers since 1992 or that neither of them was a basketball power (but who will be one in this occasion?). Before you write some sarcastic remarks you are always in need to check the facts. With 'those internets' it's an easy thing to do
Kurtinaitis is not a very intelectually bright person, you know. Here in Khimki we are all observing it in quite a painful way. It's true that Seoul team (not a great one, btw, it wasn't dominating its opponents even of Brazil caliber - if we have to talk about domination than we are ought to delve deeper into 50s-60s - four silver Olympic medals and 10 out of 11 European titles in a row, and, btw, these teams weren't Lithuanian-dominated though there were some not too numerous Liths in them like Modestas Paulauskas) was a team whose brightest stars were Lithuanians but even among its 6 best scorers there were 3 Lithuanians (Marciulionis, Kurtinaitis, Sabonis), two Russians (Tarakanov, Volkov) and 1 Estonian (Sokk). You know, ethnic belonging question in the Soviet Union was quite a complicated one because of the assimilation issues and inter-marriages (f.e., Siskauskas surname has obvious Russian roots and Stombergas - German ones but they both are considered Lithuanians and, most probably, rightfully so) but aside from Pankrashkin (Ponkrashov was 3 y.o. in 1988) and Tarakanov there were Tikhonenko (Uzbekistan-born, Ukrainian surname, grown up in Kazakhstan but afaik viewed himself as some sort of Kazakhstani Russian, also played for Russian NT later), Volkov (this Omsk native is as Ukrainian as Bo McCalebb is Macedonian) and Goborov (ain't perfectly sure about Valeri). 5 out of 12 - not a too small representation.
I repeat my question: aside from Lietuva which top teams missed many of its stars in 2006? I tend to agree with 2010 remark but in 2006 all the best teams were complete with their best players (aside from those who suffered from the real injuries).
Last decade wasn't 2000-2010 but 2002-2012, get your arithmetic right
In 2002-2012 (which constitutes last decade) all teams won 3 medals, so I don't understand why Lietuva is so much greater than both Russia and Greece even results-wise. But, you know, the best team is not always the one who won more medals but the one who played better - btw, I rate France of early 2000s much higher than their current team while they weren't much better results-wise. Spain of mid-2000s also was much better and sympathetic than their current team while results-wise it's mostly the other way around.
Test said that 'Russia definitely achieved less than Lithuania during last decade' - well, I only can repeat myself. Last decade (2002-2012) Russia has 3 medals (gold of Eurobasket-2007, bronze of Eurobasket-2011, bronze of Olympica-2012) and Lithuania has also 3 medals (gold of Eurobasket-2003, silver of WC-2010, bronze of Eurobasket-2007) - so I don't see a crucial difference in those results. And what was that Russian luck with the schedule in 2007? Greece and Serbia in the first Group stage, Croatia and Spain in the second Group stage, then playing with France and Lithuania on their way to the finals with the hosts. In 9 games Russia lost just once (to the Spain in the second Group stage) and has a nervous ending in just 1 another game (QF with France). So I'm curious about that team's luck with the schedule. Can you provide your opinion with some arguments?
to Terrorizer
i will start with 2007 scheduale.That year Russian didnt have better team than LITHUANIA ! if those teams have played serries until 4 LIETUVA would have won that serries im sure 100% even to this day.In 2007 group lietuva was the only team,that hasnt lost a game in group.Than suddenly in 1/4 russia and spain played first and lithuania with greece on the second day.So after wins spain and russia got a rest day for players and rest day for coahces to prepare.And we Lietuva the only team withotu a lost have to play with croatia 1/4 in the evening and already next day play with russia...with 18-20 hours rest after 7th game in 12 days...im not even talking about normal scouting preparing...This what my coleague called scheduale was not fair...Group winners should have gotten rest day (lietuva and Spain) not Russia ...
Please stop talking nonsenses about volkov as russian...So sabonis is russian too ? wolkov always was ukrainian,at the of carerr he finished with kiev,even right now he IS UKRAINIAN BASKETBALL PRESIDENT,like Sabonis of lithuanians...Without Sabonis+Marciulionis+kurtinaitis+chomicius sssr team wouldnt have a chance in winning even a bronze medal in 1988...
1990-1993 after berlin walls and ssrs breaks strongest europe team was like that:
1.Jugoslavia
2.Lithuania
3.Croatia with Petrovic
and only 4th Russia
And what happens in 1993-1994 when Russia won 2 medals? jugoslavia,Lithuania are not playing at all...and croatia tragically lost their best player of all time...What im trying to say? with those 3teams playing in full roster russia no medal in 1993-1994...its like greece in 2005-2006...
Lietuva 1990-1996 had better team than Russia
Russia had better team in 1997-1998
Lietuva had better team in 1999-2008 ( i know you won champ in 2007 but i explained that)
Russia had better team 2009-
So count years in 20 years and that maybe you will see something? but i doubt...
Its not only medal counts Lietuva 7 Russia 7...But Lietuva had only 2 horrible championship in 2 decades.2001 and 2009 thats all...All other torunaments we were in top8 if we were playing...It is called stability and level...1999 and 2004 we didnt win a medal,but those teams were just unlucky...in 1999 we argubly been the best team in that champioinship,beating italy in group 74-62 with sabonis.One week later italy becomes europe champs...in 2004 its even painfull to remember...also 2008 4th in olimpics.
Lietuva is the only team from europe in professional era 1992- to make all olimpics games.5 olimpics in top4,1 olimpics in top8...
Lithuania achieve more that russia in last 20 years,and had better teams.Our 2003-2004 team would have beat any russian team in the last 20 years ANY! (young Jasikevicius,Siskauskas,Macijauskas,Songaila,Javto kas,K.Lavrinovic and experience in Stombergas,Zukauskas,this was our strongest team of all time and russian never had better one)
So keep that shit 3rd Russia and only 5th Lietuva to yourself...Thank you lithuanian basketball hater from Russia ;]
sincerely ,Lithuanian basketball fan
Last edited by Shawshank; 11-03-2012 at 10:12 AM.
Spain - because they rank no.2 at FIBA
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
