Greece-FYROM quarrel: What do the people think?

[Digdis]

This started as a joke in another thread, but it raised an interesting question, at least for me:
We all know the reason for the quarrel between Greece and FYROM (AKA Macedonia) over the latter's name. What interests me to know is whether this peculiar quarrel is led by politicians (as always), or whether it's genuine, meaning that the people in both countries really care about this issue.
So, I would like to hear my Greek friends' take on this issue, and if there's also anyone here from FYROM, you are also welcome.
Just please don't turn this thread into a flame war, as it's not its purpose.

[EverGreen]

The people in both countries are more concerned about their stomachs being filled with food and money to be able to go out and have a good time.

There is a war going on in Iraq, a famine in Africa,
North Korea are conducting nuclear tests, the planet is changing from global warning and a genocide is being executed in Sudan.

[c_fish]

The people in both countries are more concerned about their stomachs being filled with food and money to be able to go out and have a good time.

There is a war going on in Iraq, a famine in Africa,
North Korea are conducting nuclear tests, the planet is changing from global warning and a genocide is being executed in Sudan.

Both true but that doesnt mean that nothing bad is going to happen to you if bad things happen around the world.Thats the kind of thinking that brought the problem to it current status.

Macedonia is a geographical region which today is part in Greece part in Fyrom. Tito referred to the former Yugoslavia residents of the region as Macedonians,which is odd because the slavic people came to that place some 1000yrs after Great Alexander lived,during the byzantine period.Noone in Greece paid any attention to the subject so some years ago when Yugoslavia split up they chose the name Macedonia and the star of Vergina as a flag-which they changed later.

So its not like we wake up and fall to sleep thinking the matter but more like thinking how this issue could escalate later on;Fyrom demanding to "free" the rest of macedonia,like in maps I've seen with Fyrom also owning Greek territory from Kavala to Larissa.

[qiangdade]

Well FYROMians ( ) live in a region that was called macedonia for millenia. But they settled there some 1000 years ago. I don't think they have anything to do with the ancient macedonians or alexander the great. Maybe "Slavomacedonia " would be a suitable name. Or "slovensko" (to jump back to the original thread ). But personally i don't give a flying s*** how the country or the people are called. Anyway the country was called macedonia for 80 years as a part of yugoslavia and the greeks had no problem with it, so i can understand why they still wanna be called that

[c_fish]

I think that there is a problem when a country and a neighbouring countrys region are named the same when the specific circumstances are in practice.The UN (or whoever had come up with a specific solution plan) wanted Greece to stop calling its region,a ministry,commercial products etc Macedonia

[Victorious]

Macedonia is a geographical region in the central Balkan area. Ever since the middle ages many different peoples lived there. Slavs, Greeks, Muslims, Jews, Vlachs. All of these peoples where in a sence Macedonians, because they resided in the region. The word 'Macedonia' however had NO ethnical connotation and the boundaries of the Macedonian region even differed from century to century.

Personally I don't give s*** how the people in the FYROM call themselves on a national level, but we have to take into account that the region is shared by three different countries who each have their own claims and historical achievements/heritage in the region.

The moment you call your people Macedonians, your language Macedonian and your country Macedonia, you tend to monopolise the name of the region and its history. So on an INTERnational level I feel it is only fair that the name has to be adjusted.

The UN tries to find a solution, but insofar no luck.

As for the people. As Evergreen pointed out. The people of all countries are more concerned to have their stomachs filled.

[HABIBI]

First of all i have aquestion for you... how can they call themselves "Macedonian" without even know to write it!there in only one way to write it.Mi- alfa-Kapa-Epsilon-Delta-Omikron -Ni-Alfa-Sigma ok?Μακεδονας.

[elaj]

First of all i have aquestion for you... how can they call themselves "Macedonian" without even know to write it!there in only one way to write it.Mi- alfa-Kapa-Epsilon-Delta-Omikron -Ni-Alfa-Sigma ok?Μακεδονας.

[Juan Carlos Nadal]

First of all i have aquestion for you... how can they call themselves "Macedonian" without even know to write it!there in only one way to write it.Mi- alfa-Kapa-Epsilon-Delta-Omikron -Ni-Alfa-Sigma ok?Μακεδονας.

No matter how passionate I am about this issue (agreeing of course against the use of the name Macedonia to refer to FYROM) the above argument is probably the most naive I have so far encountered...

BTW, they also write Macedonia with a "k" (Македонија).

[sinobball]

Sounds like China-Taiwan....

[Phantim3dx]

Sounds like China-Taiwan....

i was waiting for soembody to say this. which personally i want to see taiwan go back to china, under certain circumstances. although if i said it publically my taiwanese friends would all flame the hell out of me

[Victorious]

i was waiting for soembody to say this. which personally i want to see taiwan go back to china, under certain circumstances. although if i said it publically my taiwanese friends would all flame the hell out of me

Greece claims no territory whatsoever from FYROMacedonia. They simply do not agree that the country should be called ' Macedonia', because it also corresponds to the Northern Greek province of Macedonia which has its own distinctive Macedonian heritage.

A similair example can be found in France. A part of Western France near the English channel is called Brittagne (Brittain). It is because of this reason that the official name of Great Brittain is 'United Kingdom'.

[HABIBI]

Guys we must make it clear for all historics Universities etc there is only one Macedonia =Mακεδονια search it guys and you will see it.It is a part of Greece from the ancient ages

[DarkoMVP]

There is both a state and a city called Washington. There is a Georgia that is a country in Eastern Europe and a state in the United States.. Hell, there are two countries named Congo right next to each other.

It's ridiculous to stop something from calling itself whatever it want, it has no real significance and it's certainly a sovereign right. It's not really a big confusion either. For Washington, you can just add "state" or "D.C" - it takes no more than one extra word to disntinguish them.

[Juan Carlos Nadal]

There is both a state and a city called Washington. There is a Georgia that is a country in Eastern Europe and a state in the United States.. Hell, there are two countries named Congo right next to each other.

It's ridiculous to stop something from calling itself whatever it want, it has no real significance and it's certainly a sovereign right. It's not really a big confusion either. For Washington, you can just add "state" or "D.C" - it takes no more than one extra word to disntinguish them.

It's not as simple as that. By claiming the name they also claim the heritage, the history and everythng relating to the Macedonian civillization. You can't compare that to the Congos who just happen to share the name of the river that traverse them, or the Washingtons who were named in honour of a person, or the Georgias who are ...planets apart and were named after different things (Rep. Georgia: From the greek word for farming/farmland; State of Georgia: In honor of King George of England).

[Trifilli]

Just to clear up some things lets have a look at the historical roots of the conflict.

The ancient region of Makedonia (where Alexander the Great came from) became a part of the Roman Empire as the province Macedonia in 148 b.c. after it lost the Makedonian – Roman wars. With the split of the empire 395 a.d. it became a part of the eastern empire.
The biggest part of the ancient Makedonia is located today in Greece, while minor parts belong to FYROM and Bulgaria. The biggest part of todays FYROM was called Paionia in ancient times, a kingdom that was conquered by Makedonia.
In the 6th/7th century a.d. slavic people – who became an important part of the Byzantine empire - began to populate northern Makedonia. Two monks from Saloniki – Kyrillos and Methodios – began to christianize them in the 9th century and developed an alphabet for them, the Glagolitic alphabet. Later on students of the monks developed the Cyrillic alphabet (which is named after Kyrillos).
In the following times Makedonia belonged both to the Byzantine Empire and to Bulgaria, until it came to Serbia in the end of the 13th century. Not for long though, as in the 14th century – after the battles of Maritza and Boj na Kosovu – Makedonia became a part of the Ottoman Empire for the next 500 years.
1913/1913 the first Balkan War was waged between the Balkan League (Serbia, Greece, Bulgaria and Montenegro) and the Ottoman Empire. The 2nd Balkan War began 1913 between the former allies, resulting in Bulgaria losing most of the Makedonian territory it claimed after the first Balkan War. Greece gained the biggest part of the Region, including Saloniki and Kavala. During World War I Bulgaria conquered the region again but lost it after the war, same applies to World War II.
After World War II plans for a communist Great-Makedonia failed after the split between Tito and Stalin, and the Yugoslav part of Makedonia together with the biggest part of what was called Paionia in ancient times became the 6th Republic of the Yugoslav Federation, the Socialist Republic of Macedonia.
On November 19th 1991 this part of Yugoslavia declared its independence as the “Republic of Macedonia”, presenting the Star of Vergina (which is also the sign of the greek province of Makedonia) as their national flag. The biggest problem between Greece and FYROM became the constitution of FYROM though, which claimed to be in the tradition of the Republic of Krushevo, a Republic that wanted a state in the borders of the entire geographical region of Makedonia. After maps from Slavic - Macedonian nationalists appeared, on which the greek part of Makedonia was added to the northern part, Greece saw its territorial integrity endangered and began an embargo against FYROM in 1994. As Greece is by far the biggest investor in FYROM and 80% of FYROMs imports went through the port of Saloniki, the situation ended soon with a change of the flag and constitution. A paragraph was added to Article 3, that says: “The Republic of Macedonia has no territorial pretensions towards any neighboring state.” Another paragraph was added to Article 49: “In the exercise of this concern the Republic will not interfere in the sovereign rights of other states or in their internal affairs.”
After these changes the embargo ended and the situation was more relaxed ever since. In the last few years talks went on about the name of FYROM. The 2004 UN proposal “Republika Makedonija-Skopje“ was refused by FYROM and Greece. Greece said that it was a basis for constructive negotiations though, while FYROM proposed that the official name should be “Republic of Macedonia” while Greece and other countries that didn’t accept that name yet (mainly the EU) could officially use “Republika Makedonija-Skopje“ – which was refused by Greece. Recently there were signs that Greece would also accept the name “Vardar-Macedonia” (which is the name of FYROM from Serbian times). A decision in the conflict should not be too far away anyways.

I left away the discussions about Greek and Slavic origins, as well as the Bulgaria – FYROM situation, JCN is the main main for that
I also left out the debate whether the name Macedonia in FYROM and the Macedonian roots were made up by communist propaganda or not.

[qiangdade]

Good lord dude, how bored r u ?? Use some paragrafs next time I read it though i knew the facts

[Jan van Grabski]

This is interesting, while Greeks analyze their history, the rest of the world call FYROM as Macedonia, fyromians as macedonians, and none has any problems

[Juan Carlos Nadal]

This is interesting, while Greeks analyze their history, the rest of the world call FYROM as Macedonia, fyromians as macedonians, and none has any problems

That's exactly what makes it all the more frustrating. The ignorance of the rest of the world about the situation.

[Trifilli]

Good lord dude, how bored r u ?? Use some paragrafs next time I read it though i knew the facts

Lol, ya know, there are these days when you're thankful for everything that distracts your attention from the work you actually should do. Today is one of those days

This is interesting, while Greeks analyze their history, the rest of the world call FYROM as Macedonia, fyromians as macedonians, and none has any problems

If it was that easy... Of course there has also been the FYROM - Bulgaria quarrel (In short: Bulgaria accepted FYROM as an independent state but claimed that there's no Macedonian nation nor language. From the Bulgarian point of view the inhabitants of FYROM are of bulgarian origin and the language is a bulgarian dialect - an opinion that is shared by many people in Greece btw), the situation with the Albanians in FYROM and the general interest (or lack thereof) of countries such as the US (accepted the name "Republic of Macedonia in 2004) or EU members (most of them use the name FYROM) in the region.
And I'm not bored enough to go into the details here, that'd fill several pages most likely