MJ - basketball magician or overhyped egoist?

[Civilis]

There was an idea lately to create a separate thread for the "one and only" Michael Jordan and his impact on the modern-day world basketball



Was "His Airness" a unique basketball talent, a sports magician whose phenomenal athletic abilities attracted crowds to watch unforgettable basketball performances? Many people would probably agree that, if not for MJ phenomenon, basketball nowadays would not be such a popular sport worldwide, and he will remain the icon for our sport for the years to come.

Or was "His Airness" the biggest individualist the world basketball has ever seen who allowed himself throw 40 shots per game with quite poor shot percentage (hardly reached 50 pecent in field goal attempts and for most of his career was way below 30 percent in 3 point attempts)? He was not a kind of player who made teammates around him look better, but rather needed the ones like Pippen or Rodman to do the "black work on court" for "his majesty" to shine.

Wasn't it the example of "his Airness" that led to the emergence of lots of individualist "stars" whose play is so predictable and boring to watch (except the athletic dunks for the pop-corn eating masses), and what has ruined the quality of NBA in the eyes of many? Didn't the brand and myth of MJ become stronger than the basketball player himself?

I know it is a controversial discussion, but I believe it is worth bringing up.

[HIGHLANDER]

I think he was the best ever basketball player.
Yes perhaps his shooting percentage was not the greatest but he always hit the big shots, when it most mattered. He was a leader that his team mates followed, and never questioned. He also brought other qualities to the team such as passing and defense.
I think he has the championship medals to prove it.

As far as todays players are concerned, it's not his fault that they all want to try and jump the highest and as a result they maybe forgot slightly about the fundamentals.

To finish off, he had such a will to win and leadership qualities which was all capped off by respect, to be the best ever player to grace the NBA courts.

[Civilis]

I respect MJ's uniqueness as an extraordinary athlete, but e.g. when Chicago was playing against Phoenix in finals back then, I was always supporting Charles Barkley who was a better contributor to the team. The irony of destiny, however, he never got an NBA championship ring...

[mktackabery]

MJ exhibits the best and the worst of U.S. basketball - individualism, will to win, where one person can go if all they do is live, breathe, and will themselves to be the best basketball player in the world. But MJ is the reason basketball is barely a team sport in this country too. You can't deny the talent or the results. There is probably no right answer to this.

I guess it depends upon what you think is more important, being a teammate or being the best. High flyers have to fly solo and that is what he was. If he was a better team player he would not have been MJ. You could also argue that some of the games when he played sick as a dog (was it 96 when he had the flu, 101 fever? can't remember) and his knees were going and still threw down 30 points and inspired his team to keep going despite everything? Sometimes the individual can at least inspire the team to follow him.

On the other hand (and I could do this all day, actually): without him, basketball would not be where it is today in the world because of all the people inspired to play watching him . . . and only the individual can do that. People follow other people not teams.

Oh, this post is going to get me in trouble . . . better escape now while I'm ahead.

[Civilis]

I tend to agree with mktackabery. It always comes down to our own values as to what we prefer - individual excellence or team performance.

I'd also agree that it is great individuals who usually serve as a source of inspiration rather than teams (esp. in today's professional club basketball where team's identity is a very flexible concept).

What I can tell from my own experience was that entire Lithuanian generation of players grew up watching Sabonis - a great individual player with some incredible skills, which were very different from the ones of "His Airness".

Sabas always enjoyed giving an excellent assist more than scoring himself or making some spectacular dunk. Some assists were not less breathtaking than Jordan's "acrobatics".

My argument is that an individual player can be a sports icon not only by representing individualist performance, but also by making everyone around him better, often in a spectacular way.

[LuDux]

Or was "His Airness" the biggest individualist the world basketball has ever seen who allowed himself throw 40 shots per game with quite poor shot percentage (hardly reached 50 pecent in field goal attempts and for most of his career was way below 30 percent in 3 point attempts)?

Wrong (1- regular season, 2 - Jordan FG%, 3 - Chicago FG%)
1984-85 51,5 > 50,0
1986 45,7 < 48,1 (18gm - injury)
1987 48,2 > 47,3
1988 53,5 > 49,0
1989 53,8 > 49,5
1990 52,6 > 49,8
1991 53,9 > 51,0
1992 51,9 > 50,8
1993 49,5 > 48,2

1995 41,1 < 47,6 (17gm - retirement)
1996 49,5 > 47,8
1997 48,6 > 47,3
1998 46,5 > 45,1

[Civilis]

What's wrong? You proved my point yourself.

His FG shooting pecentage was lower than 50 per cent in 7 out of 13 seasons in the NBA, which is not that classy from the "world's best ever basketball player"

[HIGHLANDER]

I respect MJ's uniqueness as an extraordinary athlete, but e.g. when Chicago was playing against Phoenix in finals back then, I was always supporting Charles Barkley who was a better contributor to the team. The irony of destiny, however, he never got an NBA championship ring...

It is not an irony!
I didn't see 1 player v 5 or 12,
There where other players on the team contributing and i believe he made them better.
Championship medals prove the best team always win.
His game was not only spectacular moves to the basket, he done the little things that make a team better, only the educated basketball eye would see this.
No offense

[final countdown]

When i see questions like the one in this thread i start wondering!

Is Earth round?

Is Albert Einstein the biggest scientist in history?

Is Michael Jordan the biggest bball player ever?

Of course MJ had under 50% FG,
of course MJ lost heavy shots,
of course MJ's team was losing even when he was present.
SO what?

MJ is an American. SO what?

Was Drazen less egoist than MJ, because he was born in Europe?
Are MIT or Harvard not good universities because they r placed in USA?

But even if u r too european to accept MJ, read in my signature what other GREAT bball players had said about HIM!

I'm not doupting International Basketball BY accepting MJ as the BEST ever!!
Don't become like some poor americans saying that LeBron or Wade are the next MJ!!!!

IMO:
Being a bball fan without accepting the greatness of MJ, is the same thing as being a christian and not believe in Jesus!!!

[Civilis]

Dear final countdown, you have a very simplistic view on the world, which, I guess, makes you feel safe You just sound indoctrinated. Nothing more to add.

PS. "Albert Einstein - the biggest scientist in history": Wow! Or the only one you ever heard of?

[final countdown]

Dear final countdown, you have a very simplistic view on the world,

There is no other way for a scientist.

[mktackabery]

There is no other way for a scientist.

I hope you aren't being serious.

[HIGHLANDER]

But even if u r too european to accept MJ,


I think final countdown makes a good point here, Civillis. I think you fall into this category....

[Nikoo]

First of all-I HATE JORDON but my hate doesnt blind me.
Why he shooted under 50%-he was goddamm guard not Center like Wilt or Shaq or Kareem
Why he shooted under 30%- because he is not pansy like the euro players
He was not a kind of player who made teammates around him look better...-yep but hes job was simple-to score, but he did a lot of small thing who helped his team-passing of the DTs or developing post game to compensate lack of scoring centers in Chicago and so on...
Didn't the brand and myth of MJ become stronger than the basketball player himself?-Yes

Jordan is THE greatest SG to ever play the game AND on of the 3 greatest players ever


Sabas always enjoyed giving an excellent assist more than scoring himself or making some spectacular dunk. Some assists were not less breathtaking than Jordan's "acrobatics".
I know one thing-is you want something do it by yourself

[HIGHLANDER]

I think all you guys underestimate the fact that he also improved the players around him (bulls).

[Civilis]

But even if u r too european to accept MJ,


I think final countdown makes a good point here, Civillis. I think you fall into this category....

Please, Highlander, give me a break. I am not anti-American in any possible way. US may not be my favourite country to spend my life in (have been studying there though), but I even think if it was not there, it must be invented!

No need to generalize my opinion about Jordan (whom I anyway respect) on anti-something.

I have only brough a case for discussion with rather neutral arguments from both sides.

[HIGHLANDER]

Please, Highlander, give me a break. I am not anti-American in any possible way. US may not be my favourite country to spend my life in (have been studying there though), but I even think if it was not there, it must be invented!

No need to generalize my opinion about Jordan (whom I anyway respect) on anti-something.

I have only brough a case for discussion with rather neutral arguments from both sides.

OK, maybe slightly a general statement to make, can't quite accept him as being an overrated player, actually his fieldgoal % doesn't look to bad judging from those stats so your argument there is not to strong. We have come to this point before i remember, and repeat it would be boring if we all had the same opinion.
Where did you go to in the states? did you play ball?

[final countdown]

I think all you guys underestimate the fact that he also improved the players around him (bulls).

Totally agree!
Don't forget what happened seasons 93-94 (Jordan was absent) and 94-95 (only 17 games).

....No ring for the rest of the Bulls.

[-K2-]

if Jordan played by todays rules, he would average 50 PPG and scored 100 at least twice a season

[final countdown]

if Jordan played by todays rules, he would average 50 PPG and scored 100 at least twice a season

bold can be replaced also with "opponents"